A good example of the voice/inflection thing can be seen in the episode Parturition, S2 E7. Listen to the Doc/EMH speaking to Kes in sick bay after Tom & Neelix leave for the planet, he sounds irritatingly pompous his voice lowered, jaw clenched. A stunning homage to arrogant a-holes everywhere. When he returns to something close to his natural speaking voice between season 3 & 4 it's a welcome fix. I think most would agree the character is better served in his natural voice & mannerisms.
Ever notice that Robert Picardo change his voice inflection
- Thread starter Mayzio Jerome
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Early in the series the Doctor's speech is definitely more terse and clipped. As the character softened so too did Picardo's speech. I'd give the show runners some credit for the idea, but it was probably all Picardo's doing.
I loved his snarky attitude in the early seasons. In fact, one of my favorite quotes is Kes needing something, and the Doctor responding "Seems I've found myself on the voyage of the damned."
That is one of my favorites!I loved his snarky attitude in the early seasons. In fact, one of my favorite quotes is Kes needing something, and the Doctor responding "Seems I've found myself on the voyage of the damned."
I had some doubts about The Doctor in the first two episodes, I liked him but thought that the whole idea of a holographic doctor was a bit over the top.
But this conversation in the excellent episode Time And Again made me laugh and made me really like The Doc too.
KES: I'm not a member of the Starfleet crew.
NEELIX: We came aboard at mid-expedition.
THE DOCTOR: And no one asked you for your medical histories when you arrived? Of course not. That would be the ship's doctor's job. My job, if anyone had bothered to tell me about new passengers, but I seem to be just about the last to know about everything around here. So, tell me, just how many other new arrivals are there?
NEELIX: Just us.
KES: And the crew from another ship that was destroyed.
THE DOCTOR: Another crew. That's nice. This is the Emergency Medical Holographic system to Captain Janeway.
NEELIX: She's not on board. She's missing on the surface of a planet.
THE DOCTOR: Missing. The Captain is missing. It seems I've found myself on the Voyage of the Damned.
And this one from Parturition is really hilarious:
KES: There are some things you can't cure. Neelix and Tom Paris had a physical fight over me.
THE DOCTOR: How delightful.
KES: Delightful?
THE DOCTOR: You should consider it a high compliment. Throughout history, men have fought over the love of a woman. Why, I can quote you autopsy reports from duels as far back as 1538.
KES: That's not funny.
THE DOCTOR: It's not meant to be. You've always been interested in autopsies.
KES: On my homeworld it's so much simpler. You choose a mate for life. There's no distrust, no jealousy, no envy, no betrayal.
THE DOCTOR: Hmm. Your world must have very dry literature.
Generally, I like early Voyager better than later seasons, but this is a rare example where I disagree. Funny as the snarky doctor of early seasons might have been, I also found his attitude grating and coming accross as being frustrated and bitter except when encountered in small doses. I'm glad he got more 'human and softer' in later years, and I also think it's consistent with the overarching narrative of him gradually developing a personality and learning to fit in with the crew over the years.
His first appearances can be taken as reproducing Dr Zimmerman’s personality before developing his own traits.
But he was more funny in the early seasons!
Just look at these quotes I provided in an earlier post.
Hilarious!
KES: I'm not a member of the Starfleet crew.
NEELIX: We came aboard at mid-expedition.
THE DOCTOR: And no one asked you for your medical histories when you arrived? Of course not. That would be the ship's doctor's job. My job, if anyone had bothered to tell me about new passengers, but I seem to be just about the last to know about everything around here. So, tell me, just how many other new arrivals are there?
NEELIX: Just us.
KES: And the crew from another ship that was destroyed.
THE DOCTOR: Another crew. That's nice. This is the Emergency Medical Holographic system to Captain Janeway.
NEELIX: She's not on board. She's missing on the surface of a planet.
THE DOCTOR: Missing. The Captain is missing. It seems I've found myself on the Voyage of the Damned.
And this one from Parturition is really hilarious:
KES: There are some things you can't cure. Neelix and Tom Paris had a physical fight over me.
THE DOCTOR: How delightful.
KES: Delightful?
THE DOCTOR: You should consider it a high compliment. Throughout history, men have fought over the love of a woman. Why, I can quote you autopsy reports from duels as far back as 1538.
KES: That's not funny.
THE DOCTOR: It's not meant to be. You've always been interested in autopsies.
KES: On my homeworld it's so much simpler. You choose a mate for life. There's no distrust, no jealousy, no envy, no betrayal.
THE DOCTOR: Hmm. Your world must have very dry literature.
^I don't think both viewpoints bite each other, he might have well been more funny in earlier seasons (though he also had some great comedic moments in later seasons. I would cite Message in a bottle as an example, if you are willing to accept that as a 'later season example'). It's just which version of hi you like more. For you it's the former, for me it's apparently the latter.
He was supposed to be grating and frustrated and bitter hence why everyone bitched about his bedside manner and the Mark Is were banished to mining duty. And Picardo pulled it off perfectly
Yes, I take this more as an 'evolution of character' thing. At first he merely a 'servant', as he was intended. As he was used more, he became annoyed at the illogical humans, and their mannerisms (things he should never have noticed during normal usage). But over time, as his personality learned how to properly interact with living beings (things Data also had to learn), he became more 'humble' (not really, but he learned to fake it). One of my favorite scenes is when he and Tuvok threw snark back and forth at each other - something neither of them should have been capable of. LOL
While I love quips, I am not in favor of sacrificing character development for humor. I think there was room for him to have his own expectations of interactions with the crew, or their attitudes. See also Worf's attitude towards labor and delivery in "Disaster." But, if Worf was always like that in his interactions I would find it grating and less humorous, as well as a sign of a very static character.But he was more funny in the early seasons!
A character can develope and still be funny.
Naturally. But I would not expect a character to remain identically the same.
Some episodes hold up extremely well. Others feel like missed opportunities. Others feel like they're trying too hard. Others feel like they're coasting and/or are just rubbish.
Do any of them come close to the high points of TNG or DS9? Of course, does any individual spinoff need to - especially after the first one? Once TNG proved it could be done and strongly enough, then it becomes less of a point to do the "I can do better, nah nyah-nee nyah naaah!" shtick.
And VOY did improve on some things (all while tripping over itself in others.) Exploring Vulcans with Tuvok was definitely a consistently high point for the show and it takes a lot to look at the original show, make note of how Vulcans control or repress emotions, and then actually flesh out detail that fits with the previously told narratives, or at least not going over the top with it. Pairing Tuvok with lone-survivor-happy Neelix was also a stroke of genius; the restrained character adjacent to the hyper one and, if nothing else, the actors hired (Russ/Phillips) go so far above and beyond that anyone else wouldn't make the clunkier stuff work.
And the Seven/Janeway not-a-total-retread of Data/Picard to "learn the humanities" had a more relatable backstory, only because no human is a computer (but the allegory is not inaccessible.)
As for downers, the treknobabble - especially with anything including the adjective "Borg" in it - was a definite sting. The show clearly ditched original potential to become "TNG-lite", though with DS9 losing ratings and the dislike of serialized storytelling, it's understandable to see why VOY became TNG-lite.
Not to mention VOY dropped the ball on the hard-made continuity TNG and DS9 crafted (and they made mistakes, but those never felt so contrived.) Not to mention, TNG also tried hard for the most part with integrating real science as known at the time. VOY sometimes dropped the ball big-time, especially when claiming things like how Deuterium is rare, when it's based off the most abundant element (hydrogen, which can release a lot of energy in the right conditions but everybody knows that...) Of course, if there's a delay with writing and editing scripts and hard deadlines pretty much suck, it'd be easy just to throw in a word if there's a time crunch and hope one gets it right. Like how Geordi does every time there's a red alert going on.
So, yeah, it is a bit of glib hyperbole when I say "drop the ball" and that's not right either. But it's quicker to type out.
^^this
The humor has to flow naturally. IMHO, it's why TVH worked when later attempts to make everything comedy-driven failed. "Fish out of water" is also easier as a trope to do and without straining credibility for developed characters. With the Worf scene, if I remember it rightly, it was a one-off or rarity for Worf to inject humor, and in a scene that felt naturally done (unlike others in the same story!).
Yes... but it's also why the show has not aged as well as DS9 has. People have grown to appreciate DS9's greater narrative and the way nearly all its characters evolved. Voyager's endless jumping up and down on the Big Red Reset Button has gone the other way.
Tuvok was a perfect character for a show like VOY. He didn't grow or evolve because it didn't make sense for him to do so. He was over 100 years old, trained in Vulcan discipline, and had a family at home. We periodically saw his emotions peek through his logic, but that was due to circumstances rather than changes in who he was.
Indeed, a YouTube commentary I recently watched on the series summed it up as one big missed opportunity.
A few. "Year of Hell" comes to mind, maybe the one time the Big Red Reset Button was well used.
Pretty much all of modern dramatic television has gone serialized. Hence why people have come to appreciate DS9 more now. It was an outlier back in the 90s though. It's "failing" then definitely influenced VOY's show runners at the time causing them to drop their planned ongoing long term arcs.
VOY is more accessible to mainstream audiences. This negates in my mind some of the vitriol spewed from more hardcore online fans of Trek saying how shitty the show was and few people liked it. Ratings were not the greatest at the time due to it being broadcast on UPN. Plus there was some franchise fatigue with the then Powers That Be setting in at the end. YMMV. VOY was one of most watched shows on the streaming platforms a few years ago. In 2017, Netflix reported that of all the Star Trek shows in its catalog, six of the top 10 most-watched episodes were from Voyager. It's documentary, by the end of March 2021, had raised over $1.2 million from over 11 thousand donators to make it the most funded crowdfunded documentary ever. Two of it's more popular characters, Seven and Janeway, have made comebacks in modern Trek series. So I do not really agree that the show hasn't aged well.