Equinox - Question

[kathrynjaneway]

I've just re-watched Equinox and I've been wondering.

If Ransom had followed Janeway's suggestion towards the end of the episode, activated the auto pilot and beamed back to Voyager, what would have been his position? We would have had two captains. Janeway stated that "In a combat situation involving more than one ship, command falls to the vessel with tactical superiority". I assume that would also make her the acting captain. But what would have happened to Ransom? He obviously was higher in rank than Chakotay, but wouldn't have been the acting captain....so what would his position have been? First Officer? I don't think he would have been thrilled about losing a pip.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

He would have been rankless but alive.

 

[kathrynjaneway]

^^ Great!

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

It's the truth. He would have been brought on board as criminal. Unlike the Maquis, Ransom would have been treated as a criminal. Like the crew from the Equinox that did survive and were on Voyager, he would have lost his rank and all privledges.

Unlike Sudor, who was a killer, there wouldn't be a need to lock him away from everyone, confine him to quarters.

 

[kathrynjaneway]

Right, I kinda forgot the fact that he would have lost his rank as well. Must have been the last scene on the bridge that distracted me! " I'll replicate the croutons." *sighs* But just out of curiosity, what would have happened if the Equinox crew hadn't been criminals but the ship had been destroyed anyway?

 

[brcarthey]

Right, I kinda forgot the fact that he would have lost his rank as well. Must have been the last scene on the bridge that distracted me! " I'll replicate the croutons." *sighs* But just out of curiosity, what would have happened if the Equinox crew hadn't been criminals but the ship had been destroyed anyway?

they would have kept their ranks and been assigned accordingly to a department based on their skills. if there were no positions in said dept. then they would have either found something as close as possible or allowed the person to go to an empty position of their choosing provided they got permission from the department head.

remember, there had been at least at least seven deaths up to that point: sudor, seska, jonas, kaplan, a female crewman's death in "scientific method," at least 2 crewman died during "the killing game," etc. (i know i'm forgetting others) so there were plenty of positions that needed new bodies.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

No, Janeway specifically removed the Equinox crew's rank.

JANEWAY: The last time we welcomed you aboard you took advantage of our trust. You betrayed this crew. I won't make that mistake again. Noah Lessing, Marla Gilmore, James Morrow, Brian Sofin, Angelo Tassoni, you are hereby stripped of rank. You'll be expected to serve as crewmen on this vessel. Your privileges will be limited and you'll serve under close supervision for as long as I deem fit. This time, you'll have to earn our trust. Dismissed.

Equinox, Part II

 

[Guy Gardener]

The space beasties were people. Ransom was as much a murderer as Suder many times over.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

So, suggest what she would have done with him.

 

[Guy Gardener]

They were all mass murders. Rudy's punishment would have been the same as the rest surely since they were being punished for mass murdering already/as well? Sure he was giving the orders, but Gilmore invented the machine to juice the beasties. Besides in the episode Tuvok said that they planed to remove his/their freedom and the beasties told him pull the other one.

I have already recently asked the questions already that if Ransom had survived wouldn't the beasties have chased Voyager, and would Janeway have handed them over for execution like she promised.

In ancient times I have asked if janeway invented a new slave class on her ship since we don't know the peculiarities of prison labour rights since the federation doesn't have prisons more so than penal colonies which basically afford that you carry on as you would inside certain boundaries but otherwise one would think still being awarded all the other benefits of the typically free society the socialistic federation offers it's citizens?

So what would have happened if the Equinox 5 refused to be indentured servants? Sure they could accept that they deserved to be punished, but for how long? How many years? How unavailable was redemption, parole or reintegration? they might have been looking at 70 years more of being "undesirables" and that was not tolerable for even the most humble of people.

Marooning?

Lets face it, if 15 or 20 Equinox crewmen had survived, Janeway wouldn't have had the resources to make sure they behaved as well as run the ship, that marooning them might have been her only option... But would she leave a "caretaker" behind with them to make sure they didn't get up to no good?

Bye bye Harry?

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

That still doesn't answer the question, Gardner, and you know it.

What would you think should have been done with Ransom if he was one of the very few that survived? Or, are you saying you agree with me and his rank would have been removed, and he would have been put under the watchful eye of security as he went about his duties?

 

[Guy Gardener]

I don't know it.

The second sentence in the first line says "Rudy's punishment would have been the same as the rest surely."

Did you forget Rudy was Ransom's Christian name?

If they punished him different then they would have had to punish the rest accordantly and equivalently. Which means probably that they certainly got punished less when Janeway was sorting out sentencing, because she didn't have to make an example of Rudolph Ransom.

Marooning or I suppose stasis, but not death. No one went to Talos IV.

Why didn't they put Suder in Stasis?

They had to put a guard out side his door always for appearances.

It's not like they had manpower to waste.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

No, I didn't forget. I asked for clarification because your posts were confusing (to me).

Janeway could have justifiably punished Ransom differently than she did the other crew because he was a CO. It happens all the time.

 

[Guy Gardener]

(My posts are confusing to everyone, don't worry, it just means you're normal. Normalish.)

Because they were "just following orders"?

That defence barely holds water, and then if they continue to follow that same order hundreds of times?

"the more of them we killed, the less wrong it seemed."

Considering the hundreds of beasties they killed and I think 68 (the number was given in the script) they planned on still killing to get home, the lot of them were equally complicit and equally guilty... Although only a fool would not notice that it was Max who was the chief architect of that damnable plan... If you squint the whole thing plays out like the play (not the game) "Othello" with Max as Iago controlling Rudy's actions.

 

[Brit]

... Although only a fool would not notice that it was Max who was the chief architect of that damnable plan... If you squint the whole thing plays out like the play (not the game) "Othello" with Max as Iago controlling Rudy's actions.

That's the way I saw it too, and Ransom was the weak Captain that allowed his next in command to run his ship, and kill aliens for a way home. Ransom probably ranks down with John Harriman as the worst captain in Starfleet.

Brit

 

[Guy Gardener]

Before he killed Kathy, Peter David wrote a book called Captain's daughter, it's about Sulu's daughter. Good read.

Killing Kirk actually built Harriman's character excellently.

You know half trying to make up for doing something awful and half trying to live down the persecution.

 

[Pauln6]

I think they wasted yet another opportunity on Voyager by forgetting about the Equinox crew. Having a frustrated ex-captain being ordered around by Ensign Kim could have been fun too.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

I think the potential for mutiny would have been greater had Ransom been on board. Also, despite his homicidal behaviour, he was still a captain who had been working in the Delta Quadrant. His knowledge could have been incredibly useful.

 

[nx1701g]

If I recall correctly the original plan for Equinox mainly rested on Kate Mulgrew and what she decided to do when her contract expired. One of the reasons that they set it up that the aliens attacked Janeway was so that they could quickly write her off of the series should Mulgrew not have signed her contract. The plan was if she didn't sign that Ransom would have a change of heart at the end of the episode (like what happened) and he would assume captaincy of Voyager (that was why they went after a somewhat well known actor to play Ransom).

Berman talked about it in an interview in the Star Trek Communicator.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Well known my ass.

Sure I seen him about, but not often and not in the billing.

Hmm?

Bruce McGill's Captain Braxton would have been a fine choice?

Not sure who else I would have like to replace Kathy outside of the main cast, but it's a safe bet Michael Dorn put his hat in the ring.