Episodes you refuse to watch

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by IronMaiden, Sep 14, 2015.

  1. Isolinear

    Isolinear Commander Red Shirt

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    Trip himself mentioned it in "Dawn" when he's dying in the hot sun. He references "Precious Cargo" in the same sentence as well. Pretty sad that the highlights of his life were these two awful episodes:
    Terra Nova is full of plotholes and cringeworthy cliches, but it is a masterpiece compared to Unexpected.

    Unexpected: LOL, Trip has a STD. :guffaw:LOL, a pregnant man with nippples on his arm! :guffaw: LOL, Trip can't even handle his first Alien environment :guffaw:LOL, we have a holodeck in prequel Episode 4. :guffaw:LOL, Klingons making fun of Trip! :guffaw:.....:rolleyes:
     
  2. eyeresist

    eyeresist Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    LOL, Isolinear made a post :guffaw:


    It's easy to do, isn't it?
     
  3. Magellan

    Magellan Commander Red Shirt

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    These are the voyages. The whole idea sounded so insultingly bad that I've never seen it, and don't feel like I'm missing anything.

    For people avoiding A Night in Sickbay, I'll say I kind of like it. I thought it was going to be terrible but it was worth watching. It's got that sooooo bad it's good quality like Spock's Brain. I watched it with a friend and we both were laughing our asses off.
     
  4. Willow

    Willow Captain Captain

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    I think that if you take your sense of humor with you when you watch some of these episodes, they aren't all that terrible. I find that even the most cringeworthy episodes have some redeeming quality if I go into it with the right mindset.

    Except TATV. That takes cringeworthy to a whole new level.
     
  5. Scotchy

    Scotchy Commander Red Shirt

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    Does the theme song count?
    A long road indeed....
     
  6. IndyMac

    IndyMac Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Has anyone mention "These Are The Voyages..." yet?

    Seriously though, any of the Temporal War episodes, I loathe the whole concept. It's Star Trek, not Time Trek.
     
  7. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I happen to be a fan of "These Are the Voyages" and am very appreciative of the fact that Marina and Jonathan agreed to reprise their roles, despite concerns about having aged and so on. Marina, especially, was very brave about the whole thing, as she has always been the TNG "babe" (after Ro & Tasha, of course). Frakes, as a matter of fact, has - reportedly - spoken ill of this episode. And whilst I greatly respect his opinion, I suspect he's kind of lost his objectivity on it. He may even be pandering to what he perceives to be popular perception of TATV. Nevertheless, I thought it was wonderful to see Marina and Jonathan there to help bring closure to STAR TREK on television for what had been - until very recently - indefinitely.

    There are aspects of the episode I would've changed, certainly. I wanted to see Trip and T'Pol together, riding off into the sunset, with news that she was pregnant. That would've been very sweet, especially after a couple of episodes, back there, where we got to see T'Pol acting motherly. Oh, I forget his name, right now, but in Season 3 (the best of them, in fact) T'Pol was an old hag in another timeline who'd had a son with Trip. I don't remember if he'd married her, or not. I seem to recall that he died, without her committing to him. All of that was severely cut short, which irked me, to no end. But one episode I absolutely cannot watch is when Anthony and Malcolm are possessed by aliens and "Observe" the crew. I don't know what I would've preferred, but it was just cheap, lame and not very entertaining.
     
  8. Anji

    Anji Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    All of them! I get so frustrated trying to watch Scott Bakula trying to make that infantile dialogue work. My God, he's not Richard Burton, but give the man something to work with!
     
  9. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wouldn't go so far as to call his dialogue "infantile," but Scott acted well in all of his "awe shucks!" scenes - unfortunately, displays of angst were very difficult for him to convey, convincingly. But his personal limitations shouldn't be blamed on the material he was given. On the plus-side, he fit in with the rest of the cast, looks-wise, and his heart was in the right place.
     
  10. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

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    T'Pol was an 'old hag' in E2. (in the same timeline BTW)

    TATV is one of those love/hate episodes. There is much to like about it, but the bad is soooooo bad I just can't watch it. I get too angry (still, to this day)

    One of the things that irks me about TATV is, as you've stated, the Trip/T'Pol relationship. "[FONT=Arial]However long it may be, I believe I'm going to miss you.[/FONT]" is just a steaming pile of elephant dung.

    If you are going to bill the last frakin episode of Star Trek (ever - at the time) as a Valentine to the fan, don't spit on them... I could go on :lol:
     
  11. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

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    Scott's acting only suffered when he was required to be mad/angry. It's just not in him. Scott is too nice a guy. The problem is writing Archer like that.
     
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  12. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I have to say with the Trip/T'Pol climax, Rick Berman, et al, knew that fans would appreciate seeing these two characters living happily ever after. I mean ... it's not like this Is even based on Real Life events, there's no reason to deny them that. If Trip's dying seemed like a hoot, at the time, as they were writing it, then at least give him closure with T'Pol that would've made his death even more profound. But we just get that shot of T'Pol sniffing Trip's laundry. I don't know ... I just get the feeling that there was some kind of "Payback" at the viewers for letting the ratings tank, the way they did.

    I'm inclined to agree with this sentiment, actually, if for no other reason, than because Scott's talent and range were a known quantity. On the other hand, of course, when writers crap out, the first thing they want to do is deconstruct a character, because they don't know where else to take him. "Oh! Captain Archer's such a goodie-goodie! How about ... how about if we make him have to torture people to $ave the day?" Shitty-assed writers ... what can you say about them, except: What a way to make a living!
     
  13. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    I don't refuse to watch any episode but if I did, Acquisition and A Night in Sickbay would be the first to come to mind.
     
  14. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

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    Probably some truth there.

    Season 3 was great and then season 4 was exactly what all the "fans" were clamoring for... where were they?
     
  15. T'Arwen

    T'Arwen Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm not sure if you're talking about E2 or TATV but they they did marry in the E2 timeline. Either way, cutting short their relationship still irks me. I know I'm going to be a broken record but it erased the progress they made in Terra Prime. While the death of a child can be too much for some couples, I doubt they watched Terra Prime before writing TATV. And so we got no mention of Elizabeth or Paxton. The Trek FM podcast said the Beebs were AWOL throughout season 4. For my 2 cents, I don't believe they made it bad on purpose but they were probably too lazy to play catch-up with what happened after Storm Front.

    This goes a long way toward explaining why the angry scenes are so overacted. Scott really overcompensates.
     
  16. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, I was unsure if they'd married in the E2 timeline, thank you! Trip & T'Pol never seemed to catch a break, but even at the height of their romance it was always this soap opera with them. Oh! T'Pol's officially announced to Trip that she's only interested in sexual experimentation and yet ... she'll get jealous, or find herself - involuntarily, mind you - bonded with him, telepathically. To such a degree, in fact, that not even green Orion women with bodies built for sin and pheromones working on overtime seem to have any discernible effect. Whatever, OK ... can these 2 crazy kids just date and fall in love, like normal people?

    I'm forced to agree with you that These Are the Voyages was probably written without concern for tie-ins, or follow-ups. Even Pegasus was just used as an excuse for this episode to happen, that particular episode did not need anymore closure, especially not of this kind. Rick, et al, have gone on record as saying that they just wanted to wrap up -ENTERPRISE- with an episode they could have some "fun" with. There was no real rhyme or reason to it, but Marina and Frakes were certainly reliable, as guest stars. Left to play their TNG characters, there wasn't any "work" involved. No figuring out what an introduced alien's culture is like, or anything and the aliens they did show are just a motley crew of degenerates. They could've all been Human and it wouldn't have mattered, except for the cost $avings in makeup and appliances.

    Even in the 24th century, it just doesn't follow that people would use a historical mission to figure out their personal problems. I mean ... if I was having trouble selling my Art, I don't, instinctively, reach for a book about The Battle of Gettysburg or the assassination of JFK to figure out a game plan. But there are times in STAR TREK lore - not just this one instance - where the viewer's called upon to consciously suspend our disbelief and just go with it. The Q episodes are practically all like that, for example.

    As for Scott's acting choices and limitations, he was hired because people knew and loved him and he had credentials in sci-fi with Quantum Leap, which I never really watched. I did see an episode of it, perhaps two, after the fact and I just didn't get it. I thought it was overrated and more than just a little bit silly. The premise being an unknown Man or woman gets their soul - temporarily - possessed by Scott's character, who then solves all of their personal problems for them, with the help of Al, his magical sidekick. Whatever. But it didn't seem to require much from Scott in terms of "acting," he just had to dress in drag for that episode and that was the gag, I guess. But, he was, apparently, beloved in this role. Don't ask me why.

    Whatever ENT signed him on for, though ... We can't help but feel bad for him, when he's got egg on his face, especially because the ENT staff knew Scott's strengths & weaknesses. But in Hollywood, talent is very secondary to things like how photogenic someone is, if they can get asses in theatres or draw ratings. There's not a lot of sympathy for the audience, though, for how uncomfortable it is for us to see a favourite actor doing poorly. It's kind of on you to pretend like it's not going on and just go with it ...
     
  17. HopefulRomantic

    HopefulRomantic hyperpolypyroferricist Moderator

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    If only. Would have been a cool ongoing story thread running alongside all the action plots, this microcosm of human-Vulcan evolving relations. If the show had gone 7 seasons, maybe, but... :sigh:

    Or character continuity. Or viewer satisfaction. Or Effective Story Structure 101. Or basic logic. But don't get me started. :mad: I would happily watch paint dry rather than sit through "TATV" again--

    :scream: Oh crap, I have always said there's something for me to love in every episode of ENT. But "TATV", gaahhhh ... okay, Archer's dress uniform at the end, he looked really good in that.

    I did watch Quantum Leap. Scott was great in it. That cross-dressing episode, if it was the first time he did it, it was mostly played for the "Look, it's Scott goofing with high heels and lipstick." But there were many touching and serious plotlines as well as funny ones, and an ongoing storyline concerning sidekick Al's past as a Vietnam POW. It was a tour de force character for Scott, the role of a lifetime, and the writers did him proud. QL was the reason I wanted to watch Scott in Enterprise.

    I'm sorry that the ENT writers did not take better care of Archer as a character. I loved Scott as Archer - maybe because I focused on what worked with the character and kind of set aside the inconsistencies. I thought his work in Season 3, as the war took its toll on Archer, was outstanding. "Similitude," for example, "Damage," "Twilight." And there was "Observer Effect" in Season 4. Really impressive work, for me, anyway. :)
     
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  18. Turbo

    Turbo Anthro Hawk Premium Member

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    Bound. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, DUMB, and sexist.

    (EDIT: Oops. Got Bound and Bounty mixed up. Bounty is also pretty dumb.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2016
  19. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Could you imagine, had the show gone that way for Trip & T'Pol, what kind of an impact Elisabeth would've had, eventually? Especially if it were a 6th Season episode, let's say? People would probably still be talking about that, today. As it was, Trip & T'Pol just had arbitrary oddities happen, in place of love. Like T'Pol's developing a sense of humour, due to her psychic bond. Or Trip's getting invited to her wedding to Koss.

    I'll ... I'll try.

    Hey ... I know how it is. Look ... when I see Lwaxana Troi on TNG getting an entire episode devoted to her mid-life crisis, I feel the same thing. Or when Scotty - that's The Original Series Scotty - getting a show on TNG and it's cringeworthy how they show him getting underfoot and up everyone's noses ... I'm like, "gaahhhh ...!!!" Believe me, I know only too well what that feels like. But then, you find that one jewel in the rough and those shows that got suffered through sort of added more impact to it, than if it just stood alone. It's that comparative thing, where you know you're watching the crème de la crème!

    As I say, I did not sample Quantum Leap beyond that one episode, or so ... but I did notice that it was going for a certain charm. That it wanted to be likeable, that it wanted to entertain. And when a show's heart's in the right place, like that was, it's going to grown on you. I just couldn't relate to it, that's all.

    I'm forced to agree about the writing, because those speeches were pretty rough, even when he stopped referencing gazelles and the like. I'm pretty sure he was always directed to liven them by delivering them with "enthusiasm," but if he'd just held back and maybe sounded more like someone reading a speech does, they might've at least sounded sincere.

    But, as an actor, Scott was called upon to endow a lot of things, in ENT, and I believe he was a good lead for a STAR TREK series. Unlike the other captains, though, Jonathan Archer was the heart of the ensemble. James T. Kirk was definitely a Romantic, and a gentleman and Captain Archer shares that. But Kirk wasn't really the "heart," I guess that mostly fell on Bones, though he was a bit rough in how he expressed it. Scott really captured the romantic, the dreamer that Archer was and tried so hard to remain.

    I did believe that some of that was tempered by the series' end, but not as much as Archer believed. Yes, he realised that he has to take weapons along, but in his heart, he's still an explorer. Without making a big song and a dance about it, Scott was always able to convey that and I do like that about both he and the character.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2016
  20. HopefulRomantic

    HopefulRomantic hyperpolypyroferricist Moderator

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    The dreamer. Yes, exactly this. :) I think you're onto something with this comparison of McCoy and Archer, their compassion and hope for humanity.