Episodes so bad they are funny/good?

[Richard S. Ta]

Season 3 has a lot of good episodes. If I was reaching for a TOS episode to waste a Sunday afternoon with I’d probably be more likely to reach for Season 3 than I would Season 1. I find the latter is quite stuffy in places but Season 3 always entertains.

Plus there’s The Empath, The Tholian Web and Spectre of the Gun in there. Three solid gold classics for me.

 

[Okmyx]

I agree with the above assessment.

I've stated in many a thread that for me, the line:

"Brain and brain!!!...What is brain!!??"

Is literary genius.

(Yes the entire premise of the episode is completely ridiculous, especially with McCoy being able to wire Mister Spock's body up as a remote-controlled robot; and the fact that immediately after the surgery, Spock gets up with a full head of hair, and not a single strand is out of place. -- but yeah for me it's still a guilty pleasure.)

Stupid and full of plot holes, yes, but one of my favorites! That line "Brain and brain what is brain" cracks me up every time. The plot of using a brain to control the entire environment of an entire city is cool (Pumping blood, moving air etc) , but how can living tissue survive 10,000 years???? I just wish the episode showed more of the "delight" that went along with the pain!

 

[ZapBrannigan]

The plot of using a brain to control the entire environment of an entire city is cool (Pumping blood, moving air etc) , but how can living tissue survive 10,000 years???? I just wish the episode showed more of the "delight" that went along with the pain!

1) She might have been speaking in hyperbole, like "I waited a year at that red light."
2) She might have misspoke, and meant to say 10,000 days. That's 27 years.

 

[Ssosmcin]

She was also an idiot, so she was probably just parroting whatever she's been told. It's not like she's going to be around to replace this one.

 

[Qonundrum]

I, Mudd and Plato's Stepchildren are the ones that I find the most cringy, but I'm not sure if that is the same as campy.

I used to adore "I, Mudd". It largely hadn't aged well. If it weren't for the Norman scenes and most of Harry's, I'd have it in my "skip" list.

On initial viewing as a kid, "Plato's Stepchildren" didn't make sense. As the years went on, I liked more and more of it and find it rather a nice bit of high concept psychological terror on top of one hell of a great allegory*. The Platonians are arguably as vicious as the Vians. if not more.

* replace "you don't have the generic mind control powers the script infused us this week" with "you're not as ______ as me" - as many attributes as one prefers, it makes Kirk's offer at the end even more heartwarming. Granted, changing the locus of the situation then renders the psychological terror/attempted murder scenes genuinely odd unless one does major plot rewrites because changing magical mind control powers into something more off-the-shelf renders too many scenes impossible on their own, but an allegory need not all 50 minutes to be mentioned.

 

[Qonundrum]

^^ In my last series rewatch I found Season 3 is actually a lot better than usually given credit for. I feel the “Season 3 sucks” idea is pretty much an accepted notion many just accept, but doesn’t really hold much water.

For one thing Season 3 was more like the serious mindedness of Season 1 than the casual/lighter sensibility of Season 2. S3 certainly avoided the comedic stories of S2.

Right down to Chekov. In season 2 he was the butt of jokes, of which maybe 10% worked but humor is subjective... In season 3 he's given much greater stature. Even in "The Way to Eden" while giving him more of a solid backstory, partly because he was the youngest of the bridge crew at the time...

 

[Okmyx]

Yokes vere inwented in russia!

 

[Neopeius]

And if Batman doesn't qualify as camp, nothing does.

Look, just because it fulfills the dictionary definition of camp, and just because the contemporary media called it camp, doesn't mean it's camp!

Exactly and good post. TOS may look silly now but in the 1960s it was as close as people could get to prestige TV Sci-fi.

It wasn't as close as it could get. It was prestige TV science fiction. Period. Full-stop. End of story.

Or, to quote John Campbell (August 1967 Analog)

"Star Trek" is the only real science fiction for adults TV has ever presented. The nearest next show is "Time Tunnel," about one third as good!"

No matter how much TOS stumbles there is at least always the impression that they were aiming high. Contemporary letters from fans often eviscerate the Irwin Allen stuff and hold up Star Trek as something that's just a little bit more.

q.v. Campbell's comments. Not a little bit more. Much more. Real science fiction. I'm not sure why we all need to feel embarrassed for this groundbreaking show that launched a franchise that ever since, for the most part, consistently has aimed its sights lower than the original.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Look, just because it fulfills the dictionary definition of camp, and just because the contemporary media called it camp, doesn't mean it's camp!

Well, since you put it that way.

"Star Trek" is the only real science fiction for adults TV has ever presented. The nearest next show is "Time Tunnel," about one third as good!"

Ever? Or up to that point?

So you don't consider "The Outer Limits" science fiction for adults. Despite the ABC mandated "bear" every week, they did aim higher in their stories. What about "The Invaders?" Quinn Martin generally went for the older crowd with his shows.

 

[Neopeius]

Well, since you put it that way.

Ever? Or up to that point?

So you don't consider "The Outer Limits" science fiction for adults. Despite the ABC mandated "bear" every week, they did aim higher in their stories. What about "The Invaders?" Quinn Martin generally went for the older crowd with his shows.

I didn't say it. John Campbell said it in the August 1967 issue of Analog.

As for how I feel about it, Twilight Zone was about one third what one could loosely call "science fiction", though generally of an extremely primitive variety (doesn't mean it wasn't often a brilliant show, but "asteroids" with Earth gravity and atmosphere were commonplace). I only caught about a third of the eps of The Outer Limits, since Natalie was covering it by that point. A lot of it was goofy. Some of it was quite good. It was more definitely science fiction, but more 50s B-movie type stuff in genre.

The Invaders is schlock -- The Fugitive with nothing compelling about the lead, and alien invaders who are silly. The same letters that pan Irwin Allen usually lambast Invaders, too.

Doesn't mean QM can't be great -- the first season of 12 O' Clock High is gold, and The Fugitive is reasonably solid, if not always exciting, television.

But 1st season Star Trek, which is as far as the Journey (and John Campbell) have thus far gotten, is way more SFnal than anything that came before it. Even when the stories could be told without the SFnal dressing (say, "Conscience of the King"), the setting itself is profoundly SFnal for the time (viz. the prescient computer usage in "Conscience").

Is it perfect? No. Sometimes, it's not even good. And sometimes the science is kaka. But that was par for the course in contemporary SF, too. As Sturgeon said, 90% of everything is crap.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I didn't say it. John Campbell said it in the August 1967 issue of Analog.

True but you did use him to back you up a bit. However, correction noted.

As for how I feel about it, Twilight Zone was about one third what one could loosely call "science fiction", though generally of an extremely primitive variety (doesn't mean it wasn't often a brilliant show, but "asteroids" with Earth gravity and atmosphere were commonplace). I only caught about a third of the eps of The Outer Limits, since Natalie was covering it by that point. A lot of it was goofy. Some of it was quite good. It was more definitely science fiction, but more 50s B-movie type stuff in genre.

Twilight Zone was fantasy, which is why I never include it in a list of SF shows. It had some science fiction episodes, but everything happened because it all happened in "another dimension."

The Outer Limits could be goofy, but it also presented a lot of hard science fiction. Almost to the point where you felt like you were watching a high school science film. For the era, I felt it was a cut above. Episodes like "The Architects of Fear" "Nightmare" "The Man Who Was Never Born" "Soldier" "Demon with a Glass Hand" and "The Inheritors" are among the the top tier with me.

The Invaders is schlock -- The Fugitive with nothing compelling about the lead, and alien invaders who are silly. The same letters that pan Irwin Allen usually lambast Invaders, too.

I'm far from the series' most ardent fan, and Roy Thinnes was dull as Sunday school. He was a chess piece, moved about week by week as he came across as a crackpot most of the time. With his tailored suits and crabby disposition, the series' dead end concept was doomed to a short run.

That said...

The first season was wonderfully paranoid and often very spooky. Even scary in the right mindset. This was an odd choice for QM, but he wanted a new version of The Fugitive and this was the show. But nope.

The Fugitive is a show I consider remarkable consistent in quality for the first three seasons. It wasn't always exciting, but it was generally interesting and often compelling. It was a high bar for QM. 12 O'Clock High was, as one critic put it, wartime psychotherapy. Every week was another officer's or soldier's personal problem. But Robert Lansing was a hell of a lead and the series had some amazingly good episodes.

Is it perfect? No. Sometimes, it's not even good. And sometimes the science is kaka. But that was par for the course in contemporary SF, too. As Sturgeon said, 90% of everything is crap.

I do consider Star Trek the best science fiction series of its day. Whether it's the best of all time is an endless debate, but it is my favorite.

 

[Warped9]

It wasn't as close as it could get. It was prestige TV science fiction. Period. Full-stop. End of story…

I'm not sure why we all need to feel embarrassed for this groundbreaking show that launched a franchise that ever since, for the most part, consistently has aimed its sights lower than the original.

I have gotten into endless arguments standing on this very point. And it continues today although I usually don’t even engage in any debate over it much anymore.

Successive groups have been trying to recapture that lightning in a bottle TOS managed to harness, and by and large they never have. For all the success and attention TNG garnered during its production, once it was over it was essentially over. In the larger public consciousness TOS remains more recognizable than TNG as STAR TREK. No matter how vaunted DS9 is by its core of fans it just doesn’t cut it in terms of broader recognition. VOY and ENT?—pffft, totally meaningless and forgettable.

And everything since has been a “Hey, look at me!” exercise by show runners who haven’t a fucking clue what to do with Trek. It’s all forgettable feces.

 

[Pikirk_Janesisko]

Successive groups have been trying to recapture that lightning in a bottle TOS managed to harness, and by and large they never have. For all the success and attention TNG garnered during its production, once it was over it was essentially over. In the larger public consciousness TOS remains more recognizable than TNG as STAR TREK. No matter how vaunted DS9 is by its core of fans it just doesn’t cut it in terms of broader recognition. VOY and ENT?—pffft, totally meaningless and forgettable.

Well, I can tell my experience as a small kid. I always knew who were the klingons and who Spock, Kirk and McCoy was, even though I didn't watch Star Trek. Although on TNG, I knew that it had that bald captain and the weird klingon. I never knew the other shows existed.

I think TOS is still the main atraction of the franchise, even after when it moved to other things. With DS9, as much as beloved by the fans, the general public isn't even aware about it. Recently I was watching DS9 on my friend's house and he's vaguely aware of Star Trek. He didn't know that I was watching Star Trek precisely because he didn't saw Spock anywhere.

 

[Neopeius]

True but you did use him to back you up a bit. However, correction noted.

The Outer Limits could be goofy, but it also presented a lot of hard science fiction. Almost to the point where you felt like you were watching a high school science film. For the era, I felt it was a cut above. Episodes like "The Architects of Fear" "Nightmare" "The Man Who Was Never Born" "Soldier" "Demon with a Glass Hand" and "The Inheritors" are among the the top tier with me.

No argument, and I'll watch Robert Culp in anything.

The first season was wonderfully paranoid and often very spooky. Even scary in the right mindset. This was an odd choice for QM, but he wanted a new version of The Fugitive and this was the show. But nope.

Endless paranoia. And broken pinky fingers.

12 O'Clock High was, as one critic put it, wartime psychotherapy. Every week was another officer's or soldier's personal problem. But Robert Lansing was a hell of a lead and the series had some amazingly good episodes.

I can't understand the people who think Lansing's successor was better than Lansing. Feh.

We watched the show as we played my B-17 roleplaying game, and it was amazing. Serendipitous.

I do consider Star Trek the best science fiction series of its day. Whether it's the best of all time is an endless debate, but it is my favorite.

The Expanse is excellent.

And that's the thing. It's not like I'm a Boomer who can't like anything new or who wallows in the past. These 60s shows I'm watching, I'm watching with new eyes. So is Lorelei. Especially Lorelei. Good is good, crap is crap, mediocre is mediocre.

No matter what era.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I can't understand the people who think Lansing's successor was better than Lansing. Feh.

I can't imagine that's a popular belief and audiences hated it and ratings fell like a disabled bomber. I don't mind Paul Burke really, but he wasn't as strong, was a lower rank (always a mistake) and had a weird way of pronouncing the word "signature."

GALLAGHER: "Sahndee, draft an order over my sig-nih-CHURE."

There was conflict behind the scenes because Chris Robinson had a much stronger presence and Burke, who was self conscious to begin with, demanded the writers de-emphasize him.

Lansing was a pro to the end. They fired him before the final two episodes were shot and he went in and did his job as well as ever, knowing he was on his way out. They offered him a recurring role (probably in the way Gen Crowe would visit and later General Pritchard) and he declined. They asked if he'd play a part in his death scene and he declined. They asked him to allow them to use his photo on the board when Pritchard took him down. He flipped them the bird. So that first episode of season 2 is both sad and clumsy.

 

[Neopeius]

I can't imagine that's a popular belief and audiences hated it and ratings fell like a disabled bomber.

Dude, on this board, in this forum, people were like, "No way! Lansing sucked. Burke was great!"

Lansing is a killer-app for me, like Culp.

 

[diankra]

In The Equalizer, Lansing was excellent. A late episode was effectively a three-hander between him, Woodward and Roy Dotrice. And superb.

 

[tomalak301]

Season 3 has a lot of good episodes. If I was reaching for a TOS episode to waste a Sunday afternoon with I’d probably be more likely to reach for Season 3 than I would Season 1. I find the latter is quite stuffy in places but Season 3 always entertains.

Plus there’s The Empath, The Tholian Web and Spectre of the Gun in there. Three solid gold classics for me.

I was happy to see that while Season 3 was derided, there were quite a few episodes that I found enjoyable. I haven't really read this thread, but I'm sure Spock's Brain was mentioned a few times. I think what struck me about Spocks Brain is about half the episode was actually really good. They even had a meeting on the bridge and Uhura had a sizable role other than being communications officer. It wasn't until they got down to the planet that the episode started being corny.

Other episodes that I liked that season included Specture of the Gun, All Our Yesterdays, The Enterprise Incident, Tholian Web, Day of the Dove, and Requiem for Methuselah.

In terms of answered this thread and other than Spock's Brain, when Omega Glory starts saying the Preamble to the Constitution, I start getting a little cringe tingle. Also, the episode with Lazurus was just so incredibly odd.