episode "rise"

[pontypool]

At the end of this episode, after tuvok neelix and others leave the ionosphere... one moment they are still on the carriage, the next they are aboard voyager and also tuvok is already at his post.
How could they be beamed aboard while voyager has it's shields raised and couldn't have possibly dropped them for a moment because they was under fire from an alien ship?
also why did tuvok just appear at his post in tactical when in the previous scene he was still off ship ? very poor story here.

Finally, I just can't accept that neelix, who is training as starfleet.. goes against his direct orders and stops the tram from continuing it's course, unless "someone checks on top of the tram" This is compounded by the fact that at the end of the mission, tuvok actually gives neelix a commendation for his efforts, bravery etc.. with no mention of his misconduct or insubordination.
Now what if nothing was on top of the tram? and Tuvok almost died and something more catastrophic had happend as a direct result of Neelix's insubordination ? would Tuvok still commended him for his bravery and efforts?
I cannot accept the logic of Tuvok praising Neelix, especially considering Tuvok's obvious logic.

 

[F. King Daniel]

As far as I remember, a little time passed between scenes of the elevator reaching the required altitude and Tuvok being on the bridge, it wasn't an immediate cut.

And just because Neelix had done some Starfleet training, it doesn't automatically mean he'll obey an order he thinks will get them all killed. Vulcan episodes of Trek show time and again that Vulcan logic is far less than perfect. And Tuvok praised Neelix because his instincts were correct and he saved them.

I liked "Rise". It had a neat premise.

 

[pontypool]

As far as I remember, a little time passed between scenes of the elevator reaching the required altitude and Tuvok being on the bridge, it wasn't an immediate cut.

And just because Neelix had done some Starfleet training, it doesn't automatically mean he'll obey an order he thinks will get them all killed. Vulcan episodes of Trek show time and again that Vulcan logic is far less than perfect. And Tuvok praised Neelix because his instincts were correct and he saved them.

I liked "Rise". It had a neat premise.

Explanation is a little off here.
Regardless of exactly how much time passed between the carriage and being on board voyager, the fact still remains, they was in battle with shields raised, even if it was 2 hours later. It just doesn't make any sense that the shields could have been dropped to allow for transport during a battle and for that event not to appear on the show.
Also whether or not Neelix is officially training as starfleet or not is also irrelevant (even though he most definitely is, because otherwise a commendation is pointless) whether or not he would be allowed on future away missions should be put into question, if he can freely choose to ignore orders whenever he wants. Even non starfleet have to carry out orders, if they do not, they don't get taken on away missions, especially when performing a critical mission such as in this episode.
I refer you to episodes where Garak has been taken on missions in ds9, where he had to illustrate how useful he was to Cisco and even then Cisco was extremely apprehensive. Garak tried to fire on the changelings, we don't see Garak on any future away missions.
In short, you will not be accepted on starfleet missions, if you're known to put the mission in jeopardy (whether or not 'gut instincts' prove correct, is completely irrelevant) much less receive a commendation for the mission.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'll have to rewatch the episode to see the details of the battle's finale. I wouldn't put it past Voyager to flub like that.

But as for Neelix's behaviour, yes in a real-life military he'd be kicked out for disobeying orders. But Trek's Starfleet has never worked like that (see: Kirk, Picard, and especially the new Kirk). They seem believe that, if the ends justify the means, pretty much anything goes up to and including mutiny.

 

[pontypool]

I'll have to rewatch the episode to see the details of the battle's finale. I wouldn't put it past Voyager to flub like that.

But as for Neelix's behaviour, yes in a real-life military he'd be kicked out for disobeying orders. But Trek's Starfleet has never worked like that (see: Kirk, Picard, and especially the new Kirk). They seem believe that, if the ends justify the means, pretty much anything goes up to and including mutiny.

You're correct in that sometimes, star fleet officers (note star fleet, not honorary away team members) have some leeway when it comes to following in orders, because as picard has stated in the past, starfleet doesn't expect captains etc to blindly follow orders, it was originally expected as a guideline (albeit strict guideline)
Even so, it's one thing if neelix was a fully fledged star fleet officer, who acted on hard evidence, but for someone who isn't officially starfleet to jeapordize the mission based on "gut feelings" is going too far. Much less receive a commendation for it.

The times when Picard' or Kirk have ignored orders, they had a good reason for doing so, feeling there was special circumstances. We have to appreciate that as they are fully trained officers and in the case of Picard and Kirk, respected and highly decorated officers. yet when they ignored orders they was still court martialed and in the case of Kirk was even reprimanded and reduced in rank from admiral to captain.
Star fleet has always been more understanding of high ranking officers, they got their rank for a reason and had to prove themselves. As such, being in the field and having more clarity, they have been forgiven for deviating from mission parameters. However it is one thing for a captain, but quite something else for an ensign, or in this case an unofficial cadet to be given mission leeway, when 5 lives were at stake. It was only a few missions before this that Neelix was disciplined for trading contrabands on an alien space station. Yet in 'rise' he not only got away with insubordination but receives a commendation.

The message that would be transmitted is this. Ok you hope to get into star fleet and you did only just trade drugs on an alien vessel and use federation phasers, but it's ok, you don't have to follow orders, because in this case acting without any evidence turned out not so bad..Here have a commendation instead.

 

[Tosk]

I refer you to episodes where Garak has been taken on missions in ds9, where he had to illustrate how useful he was to Cisco and even then Cisco was extremely apprehensive. Garak tried to fire on the changelings, we don't see Garak on any future away missions.

Actually, Garak served on the bridge of the Defiant within a year of that incident. Sisko may not have trusted him all the way (And who in their right mind would?), but he did trust him to be on the bridge during battle.

 

[pontypool]

I refer you to episodes where Garak has been taken on missions in ds9, where he had to illustrate how useful he was to Cisco and even then Cisco was extremely apprehensive. Garak tried to fire on the changelings, we don't see Garak on any future away missions.

Actually, Garak served on the bridge of the Defiant within a year of that incident. Sisko may not have trusted him all the way (And who in their right mind would?), but he did trust him to be on the bridge during battle.

That isn't an away mission, we was speaking of away missions. Garak is always either aboard the defiant or ds9 anyway, what's the difference?

 

[Tosk]

That isn't an away mission, we was speaking of away missions. Garak is always either aboard the defiant or ds9 anyway, what's the difference?

The incident you were talking about wasn't an away mission either. If the point you were trying to make wasn't "make a mistake, never be trusted again", then what was it?

 

[pontypool]

That isn't an away mission, we was speaking of away missions. Garak is always either aboard the defiant or ds9 anyway, what's the difference?

The incident you were talking about wasn't an away mission either. If the point you were trying to make wasn't "make a mistake, never be trusted again", then what was it?

star trek voyager "rise" so lets not get too off topic, but you have already established the point yourself. Garak was never trusted before or after the mission.
Also he was never on an away mission, especially one such as neelixes, where lives was at stake.
In the episode I spoke of with Garak, the end result was Garak being the hero who faced his claustrophobia and got everyone safely back aboard the runabout .
What should that mean? now it doesn't matter he tried to fire on the changelings homeworld, or his other indescretions , because end result in that instance meant everyone was saved.. i know, instead lets give him a commendation?'No... just as you pointed out, he continued to not be trusted after the episode and further to that, his chances of ever becoming officially starfleet (like neelix eventually does) would be extremely unlikely. I didn't think the situation needed any further clarification.

 

[Tosk]

You're just gonna twist everything into what you want it to be, aren't you? Okay, have fun.

 

[pontypool]

You're just gonna twist everything into what you want it to be, aren't you? Okay, have fun.

I fully explained the reasoning without any contradictions, your only response is erroneous.
Simply making a baseless remark such as that doesn't further your point or hinder mine what-so-ever

 

[Lynx]

I can see Pontypool's points and I do agree that the episode has some flaws. Still, I like it. Not one of my absolute favorite episodes but still a good one.

As for Neelix, he did get away with a few things that would never have been accepted if, let's say Tom, B'Elanna, Kes or Kim had done them. Like when he all of a sudden became a journalist and disobeyed direct orders from Tuvok when he continued with his investigations about the spy on the ship.

 

[exodus]

I can see Pontypool's points and I do agree that the episode has some flaws. Still, I like it. Not one of my absolute favorite episodes but still a good one.

As for Neelix, he did get away with a few things that would never have been accepted if, let's say Tom, B'Elanna, Kes or Kim had done them. Like when he all of a sudden became a journalist and disobeyed direct orders from Tuvok when he continued with his investigations about the spy on the ship.

That's because Neelix, Kes & Seven aren't Starfleet, they're civilian passengers on a Starfleet vessel. They only choose to follow orders because they agreed to help out on a short staffed ship. If people in dramas followed orders generations of people never would have grown up on Sherlock Holmes, Hardy Boys & Nancy Drew stories. Lois Lane would never be in danger to need Superman's help and Paparazzi wouldn't be taking nude photos of celebs from the bushes.

 

[pontypool]

I can see Pontypool's points and I do agree that the episode has some flaws. Still, I like it. Not one of my absolute favorite episodes but still a good one.

As for Neelix, he did get away with a few things that would never have been accepted if, let's say Tom, B'Elanna, Kes or Kim had done them. Like when he all of a sudden became a journalist and disobeyed direct orders from Tuvok when he continued with his investigations about the spy on the ship.

That's because Neelix, Kes & Seven aren't Starfleet, they're civilian passengers on a Starfleet vessel. They only choose to follow orders because they agreed to help out on a short staffed ship. If people in dramas followed orders generations of people never would have grown up on Sherlock Holmes, Hardy Boys & Nancy Drew stories. Lois Lane would never be in danger to need Superman's help and Paparazzi wouldn't be taking nude photos of celebs from the bushes.

Because of Voyagers circumanstances, some officers such as tuvok paris etc can gain rank without starfleet being involved, it's done entirely at Janeways discretion. Neelix becomes an ambassador (officially) Based on the captain allowing him more away missions and having more active duties as a crewman, it can be easily surmised that these incidents occurred during what is Voyagers equivalent of his cadet stages. In which case, his ability to follow orders and protocol is under more scrutiny than ever.

 

[exodus]

I can see Pontypool's points and I do agree that the episode has some flaws. Still, I like it. Not one of my absolute favorite episodes but still a good one.

As for Neelix, he did get away with a few things that would never have been accepted if, let's say Tom, B'Elanna, Kes or Kim had done them. Like when he all of a sudden became a journalist and disobeyed direct orders from Tuvok when he continued with his investigations about the spy on the ship.

That's because Neelix, Kes & Seven aren't Starfleet, they're civilian passengers on a Starfleet vessel. They only choose to follow orders because they agreed to help out on a short staffed ship. If people in dramas followed orders generations of people never would have grown up on Sherlock Holmes, Hardy Boys & Nancy Drew stories. Lois Lane would never be in danger to need Superman's help and Paparazzi wouldn't be taking nude photos of celebs from the bushes.

Because of Voyagers circumanstances, some officers such as tuvok paris etc can gain rank without starfleet being involved, it's done entirely at Janeways discretion. Neelix becomes an ambassador (officially) Based on the captain allowing him more away missions and having more active duties as a crewman, it can be easily surmised that these incidents occurred during what is Voyagers equivalent of his cadet stages. In which case, his ability to follow orders and protocol is under more scrutiny than ever.

The ep. "Homestead" covers this.
Janeway considers him part of the crew due to his help and their friendship but Neelix himself openly states that due to him being just a civilian passenger that he isn't "officially" part of the crew. Going by what's implied in "Counterpoint", Kes (and Neelix) aren't part of the crew manifest. Neelix is not a cadet, he's a civilian and not bound by military orders or protocol. He doesn't even pursue training to be an officer or any rank beyond "Rise", therefore he dropped out.

I also don't agree that a one second scene about the shields makes an entire 45min story bad.
The shields are not a major detail, especially since the ep. is a decade old and nobody has ever questioned or noticed until now.

 

[pontypool]

That's because Neelix, Kes & Seven aren't Starfleet, they're civilian passengers on a Starfleet vessel. They only choose to follow orders because they agreed to help out on a short staffed ship. If people in dramas followed orders generations of people never would have grown up on Sherlock Holmes, Hardy Boys & Nancy Drew stories. Lois Lane would never be in danger to need Superman's help and Paparazzi wouldn't be taking nude photos of celebs from the bushes.

Because of Voyagers circumanstances, some officers such as tuvok paris etc can gain rank without starfleet being involved, it's done entirely at Janeways discretion. Neelix becomes an ambassador (officially) Based on the captain allowing him more away missions and having more active duties as a crewman, it can be easily surmised that these incidents occurred during what is Voyagers equivalent of his cadet stages. In which case, his ability to follow orders and protocol is under more scrutiny than ever.

The ep. "Homestead" covers this.
Janeway considers him part of the crew due to his help and their friendship but Neelix himself openly states that due to him being just a civilian passenger that he isn't "officially" part of the crew. Going by what's implied in "Counterpoint", Kes (and Neelix) aren't part of the crew manifest. Neelix is not a cadet, he's a civilian and not bound by military orders or protocol. He doesn't even pursue training to be an officer or any rank beyond "Rise", therefore he dropped out.

I also don't agree that a one second scene about the shields makes an entire 45min story bad.
The shields are not a major detail, especially since the ep. is a decade old and nobody has ever questioned or noticed until now.

He becomes an ambassador... that outranks most officers... there have been several episodes, including on tng where roxeanne troi (ambassador) came on board and they have been ordered by picard to accomodate her due to her rank, in some episodes even... starfleet have allowed ambassadors complete control of the enterprise during a mission, where all orders have to be followed, so at what point has neelix "dropped out" by becoming ambassador?

If you phrase it as a "one second scene with shields" you're down playing it. If voyager is battling the borg and is boarded then 1 second later the scene changes and the borg cube is destroyed for no apparent reason and the borg drones vanished from voyager, that's just the same continuity breaking script as neelix and tuvok magically transporting through raised shields during a battle and tuvok appearing at his post. (with absolutely no explanation)
We all very well know you cannot transport through raised shields. There have been numerous episodes where they wanted to transport someone in danger on an away mission, but cannot, because the ship is in danger and the shields are raised, in voyager, deep space nine, enterprise, tng and tos . It's a fundamental aspect of starship mechanics.
In deep space nine the defiant gets equipped with brand new "ablative armour" which allows them to finally transport while shields are down, because it provides an additional layer of protection. So lets put this into its proper perspective.

 

[exodus]

He becomes an ambassador... that outranks most officers... there have been several episodes, including on tng where roxeanne troi (ambassador) came on board and they have been ordered by picard to accomodate her due to her rank, in some episodes even... starfleet have allowed ambassadors complete control of the enterprise during a mission, where all orders have to be followed, so at what point has neelix "dropped out" by becoming ambassador?

You're comparing Apples to Oranges.
Luwaxanna Troi is an ambassador because she is a representitive of a world government. Therefore she is ranked as a diplomat. Neelix title as ambassador is a joke and was only given to him because he's a better negotiator for supplies than Janeway as clearly covered in the episode "Macrocosm". Neelix has no rank as an officer or ambassador because he isn't either officially. A military Captain doesn't have an authority to give anyone an official title of ambassador. Even if they could, you really believe Janeway would give an idiot like Neelix a real ambassadorship to outrank official officers?

If you phrase it as a "one second scene with shields" you're down playing it. If voyager is battling the borg and is boarded then 1 second later the scene changes and the borg cube is destroyed for no apparent reason and the borg drones vanished from voyager, that's just the same continuity breaking script as neelix and tuvok magically transporting through raised shields during a battle and tuvok appearing at his post. (with absolutely no explanation)
We all very well know you cannot transport through raised shields. There have been numerous episodes where they wanted to transport someone in danger on an away mission, but cannot, because the ship is in danger and the shields are raised, in voyager, deep space nine, enterprise, tng and tos . It's a fundamental aspect of starship mechanics.
In deep space nine the defiant gets equipped with brand new "ablative armour" which allows them to finally transport while shields are down, because it provides an additional layer of protection. So lets put this into its proper perspective.

....and Trills aren't supposed to use Transporters but Dax did all the time. Picard hated children but in "Generations" his life dream was to have a family with 3 of them. Dr Zimmerman on DS9 has a completely different personality than the one we met on Voy.
Things change, mistakes happen.
It's no big deal.
However, do they really need to mention every single time "Lower shields" to know they've beamed someone on board?
How often to they need to repeat it before it becomes anal & redundant?

 

[pontypool]

He becomes an ambassador... that outranks most officers... there have been several episodes, including on tng where roxeanne troi (ambassador) came on board and they have been ordered by picard to accomodate her due to her rank, in some episodes even... starfleet have allowed ambassadors complete control of the enterprise during a mission, where all orders have to be followed, so at what point has neelix "dropped out" by becoming ambassador?

You're comparing Apples to Oranges.
Luwaxanna Troi is an ambassador because she is a representitive of a world government. Therefore she is ranked as a diplomat. Neelix title as ambassador is a joke and was only given to him because he's a better negotiator for supplies than Janeway as clearly covered in the episode "Macrocosm". Neelix has no rank as an officer or ambassador because he isn't either officially. A military Captain doesn't have an authority to give anyone an official title of ambassador. Even if they could, you really believe Janeway would give an idiot like Neelix a real ambassadorship to outrank official officers?

If you phrase it as a "one second scene with shields" you're down playing it. If voyager is battling the borg and is boarded then 1 second later the scene changes and the borg cube is destroyed for no apparent reason and the borg drones vanished from voyager, that's just the same continuity breaking script as neelix and tuvok magically transporting through raised shields during a battle and tuvok appearing at his post. (with absolutely no explanation)
We all very well know you cannot transport through raised shields. There have been numerous episodes where they wanted to transport someone in danger on an away mission, but cannot, because the ship is in danger and the shields are raised, in voyager, deep space nine, enterprise, tng and tos . It's a fundamental aspect of starship mechanics.
In deep space nine the defiant gets equipped with brand new "ablative armour" which allows them to finally transport while shields are down, because it provides an additional layer of protection. So lets put this into its proper perspective.

....and Trills aren't supposed to use Transporters but Dax did all the time. Picard hated children but in "Generations" his life dream was to have a family with 3 of them. Dr Zimmerman on DS9 has a completely different personality than the one we met on Voy.
Things change, mistakes happen.
It's no big deal.
However, do they really need to mention every single time "Lower shields" to know they've beamed someone on board?
How often to they need to repeat it before it becomes anal & redundant?

A lot of erroneous comments, but i'll answer some of them.
First doctor zimmerman is different from the doctor on voyager. Zimmerman 'based' his personality on the doctors during programming. The match would never be 100%, describe your own personality, then ask someone else to describe yours, you would be biased, also the doctor expanded beyond his programming and his personality developed.
Picard didn't "hate" children, that's not only conjecture but extreme exagerration. He found them difficult to comprehend, but since when does that mean you hate?
Finally it wasn't that they neglected to 'mention' lowering shields to beam up Neelix and Tuvok. they did NOT lower shields. That's impossible.. it was a risky confrontation and lowering shields, as always, would have been devastating. The script writers merely needed to wrap up the ending quickly and failed to be able to tie up some loose ends within the time constraints.
No matter how anyone tries to downplay that, by stating it's a "one second scene" etc etc. it's still a crucial aspect of starship physics. Get fired on with shields down, results in devastating damage.. always.
If the most fundamental aspects of starships are ignored, it allows for an infinite amount of absurd consequences. Why not just suddenly equip voyager with 30 hollo emitters, which they can use to build a security force out of, it's ok they just didn't "mention" how they got them. Need to end the series ahead of schedule? easy.. just transport the ship 20 thousand light years closer, even though the baby born on voyager hasn't aged, therefore this huge reduction in distance can't be explained by time being elapsed, we don't need to "mention" the physically impossible, that's just quibbling over unimportant facts right?

Also you're wrong..Neelix IS an ambassador. Not a "joke" title, an actual title. Try watching the whole of voyager, it becomes official. back to you Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neelix Quote :Neelix leaves the USS Voyager in the final season episode "Homestead", when he goes to live on an asteroid-based colony of exiled Talaxians. Janeway appoints Neelix as the "official" Ambassador for Starfleet in the Delta Quadrant, and he bids the crew a fond farewell. He has a cameo in the series finale, "Endgame", establishing that, at least while Voyager remained in the Delta quadrant, Neelix does indeed stay in contact with his friends
Suck it

 

[exodus]

He becomes an ambassador... that outranks most officers... there have been several episodes, including on tng where roxeanne troi (ambassador) came on board and they have been ordered by picard to accomodate her due to her rank, in some episodes even... starfleet have allowed ambassadors complete control of the enterprise during a mission, where all orders have to be followed, so at what point has neelix "dropped out" by becoming ambassador?

You're comparing Apples to Oranges.
Luwaxanna Troi is an ambassador because she is a representitive of a world government. Therefore she is ranked as a diplomat. Neelix title as ambassador is a joke and was only given to him because he's a better negotiator for supplies than Janeway as clearly covered in the episode "Macrocosm". Neelix has no rank as an officer or ambassador because he isn't either officially. A military Captain doesn't have an authority to give anyone an official title of ambassador. Even if they could, you really believe Janeway would give an idiot like Neelix a real ambassadorship to outrank official officers?

If you phrase it as a "one second scene with shields" you're down playing it. If voyager is battling the borg and is boarded then 1 second later the scene changes and the borg cube is destroyed for no apparent reason and the borg drones vanished from voyager, that's just the same continuity breaking script as neelix and tuvok magically transporting through raised shields during a battle and tuvok appearing at his post. (with absolutely no explanation)
We all very well know you cannot transport through raised shields. There have been numerous episodes where they wanted to transport someone in danger on an away mission, but cannot, because the ship is in danger and the shields are raised, in voyager, deep space nine, enterprise, tng and tos . It's a fundamental aspect of starship mechanics.
In deep space nine the defiant gets equipped with brand new "ablative armour" which allows them to finally transport while shields are down, because it provides an additional layer of protection. So lets put this into its proper perspective.

....and Trills aren't supposed to use Transporters but Dax did all the time. Picard hated children but in "Generations" his life dream was to have a family with 3 of them. Dr Zimmerman on DS9 has a completely different personality than the one we met on Voy.
Things change, mistakes happen.
It's no big deal.
However, do they really need to mention every single time "Lower shields" to know they've beamed someone on board?
How often to they need to repeat it before it becomes anal & redundant?

A lot of erroneous comments, but i'll answer some of them.
First doctor zimmerman is different from the doctor on voyager. Zimmerman 'based' his personality on the doctors during programming. The match would never be 100%, describe your own personality, then ask someone else to describe yours, you would be biased, also the doctor expanded beyond his programming and his personality developed.
Picard didn't "hate" children, that's not only conjecture but extreme exagerration. He found them difficult to comprehend, but since when does that mean you hate?
Finally it wasn't that they neglected to 'mention' lowering shields to beam up Neelix and Tuvok. they did NOT lower shields. That's impossible.. it was a risky confrontation and lowering shields, as always, would have been devastating. The script writers merely needed to wrap up the ending quickly and failed to be able to tie up some loose ends within the time constraints.
No matter how anyone tries to downplay that, by stating it's a "one second scene" etc etc. it's still a crucial aspect of starship physics. Get fired on with shields down, results in devastating damage.. always.
If the most fundamental aspects of starships are ignored, it allows for an infinite amount of absurd consequences. Why not just suddenly equip voyager with 30 hollo emitters, which they can use to build a security force out of, it's ok they just didn't "mention" how they got them. Need to end the series ahead of schedule? easy.. just transport the ship 20 thousand light years closer, even though the baby born on voyager hasn't aged, therefore this huge reduction in distance can't be explained by time being elapsed, we don't need to "mention" the physically impossible, that's just quibbling over unimportant facts right?

Also you're wrong..Neelix IS an ambassador. Not a "joke" title, an actual title. Try watching the whole of voyager, it becomes official. back to you Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neelix Quote :Neelix leaves the USS Voyager in the final season episode "Homestead", when he goes to live on an asteroid-based colony of exiled Talaxians. Janeway appoints Neelix as the "official" Ambassador for Starfleet in the Delta Quadrant, and he bids the crew a fond farewell. He has a cameo in the series finale, "Endgame", establishing that, at least while Voyager remained in the Delta quadrant, Neelix does indeed stay in contact with his friends
Suck it

Well, if you clearly have all the answers.
Why are you bothering to ask the questions?

 

[pontypool]

You're comparing Apples to Oranges.
Luwaxanna Troi is an ambassador because she is a representitive of a world government. Therefore she is ranked as a diplomat. Neelix title as ambassador is a joke and was only given to him because he's a better negotiator for supplies than Janeway as clearly covered in the episode "Macrocosm". Neelix has no rank as an officer or ambassador because he isn't either officially. A military Captain doesn't have an authority to give anyone an official title of ambassador. Even if they could, you really believe Janeway would give an idiot like Neelix a real ambassadorship to outrank official officers?

....and Trills aren't supposed to use Transporters but Dax did all the time. Picard hated children but in "Generations" his life dream was to have a family with 3 of them. Dr Zimmerman on DS9 has a completely different personality than the one we met on Voy.
Things change, mistakes happen.
It's no big deal.
However, do they really need to mention every single time "Lower shields" to know they've beamed someone on board?
How often to they need to repeat it before it becomes anal & redundant?

A lot of erroneous comments, but i'll answer some of them.
First doctor zimmerman is different from the doctor on voyager. Zimmerman 'based' his personality on the doctors during programming. The match would never be 100%, describe your own personality, then ask someone else to describe yours, you would be biased, also the doctor expanded beyond his programming and his personality developed.
Picard didn't "hate" children, that's not only conjecture but extreme exagerration. He found them difficult to comprehend, but since when does that mean you hate?
Finally it wasn't that they neglected to 'mention' lowering shields to beam up Neelix and Tuvok. they did NOT lower shields. That's impossible.. it was a risky confrontation and lowering shields, as always, would have been devastating. The script writers merely needed to wrap up the ending quickly and failed to be able to tie up some loose ends within the time constraints.
No matter how anyone tries to downplay that, by stating it's a "one second scene" etc etc. it's still a crucial aspect of starship physics. Get fired on with shields down, results in devastating damage.. always.
If the most fundamental aspects of starships are ignored, it allows for an infinite amount of absurd consequences. Why not just suddenly equip voyager with 30 hollo emitters, which they can use to build a security force out of, it's ok they just didn't "mention" how they got them. Need to end the series ahead of schedule? easy.. just transport the ship 20 thousand light years closer, even though the baby born on voyager hasn't aged, therefore this huge reduction in distance can't be explained by time being elapsed, we don't need to "mention" the physically impossible, that's just quibbling over unimportant facts right?

Also you're wrong..Neelix IS an ambassador. Not a "joke" title, an actual title. Try watching the whole of voyager, it becomes official. back to you Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neelix Quote :Neelix leaves the USS Voyager in the final season episode "Homestead", when he goes to live on an asteroid-based colony of exiled Talaxians. Janeway appoints Neelix as the "official" Ambassador for Starfleet in the Delta Quadrant, and he bids the crew a fond farewell. He has a cameo in the series finale, "Endgame", establishing that, at least while Voyager remained in the Delta quadrant, Neelix does indeed stay in contact with his friends
Suck it

Well, if you clearly have all the answers.
Why are you bothering to ask the questions?

This is a forum, not an FAQ