Episode Conundrum issues

[Timo]

We know our heroes retain some skills relating to ship operations. They do not retain all skills, though - they can't for example do diagnostics on Data, another piece of machinery, even though they usually can. They don't even know they should be doing those diagnostics.

From their hopeless fumbling, it doesn't appear they are any good at actually manipulating their own computer. The most primitive lockup could thwart their efforts - even a "harmless" one that McDuff politely asked the computer to implement, one that would not stop Naomi Wildman, but since our heroes don't know the proper command words any more...

There's only one impossibility to swallow before breakfast here, really. Everything else flows from there easily enough. We have to accept that the Satarrans could implement selective amnesia, enough to make the heroes forget their identity but not so much that they'd forget how to fire phasers or swallow food. That's a very, very fine balance there - but one where the Satarrans no doubt have lots of experience already.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Paradise City]

I dunno. I still think we're trying to hammer in pieces of a jigsaw that don't quite fit. And medals for courageous efforts to every member on this thread. Respect.

So we've got a species here who has sufficient knowledge by whichever means to manipulate a Galaxy class computer, have enough expertise to target Data's positronic cauliflower in exactly the same way as his human colleagues, can fashion a very plausible XO clone that fits hand in glove on a Starfleet bridge but they are guarded zenophobes ignorant of interstellar developments i.e phaser technology? Doesn't quite work with me anyway.

 

[DonIago]

I wonder whether part of the issue was that the Satarrans wanted plausible deniability.

I don't think that jives with my recollections of the episode, though it might have made for a better story.

 

[Longinus]

As for Data losing in chess, he doesn't. After all, he plays both sides! It's he who comes up with a seven-move victory for Troi - as far as we know, she never had any idea of those moves or the victory they would bring. And nothing says Data couldn't make countermoves that prevent that victory-in-seven-moves, and then come up with counter-countermoves that return the victory to Troi, ad nauseum.

Ooh, I like that interpretation!

There's only one impossibility to swallow before breakfast here, really. Everything else flows from there easily enough. We have to accept that the Satarrans could implement selective amnesia, enough to make the heroes forget their identity but not so much that they'd forget how to fire phasers or swallow food. That's a very, very fine balance there - but one where the Satarrans no doubt have lots of experience already.

It is not actually that implausible. Autobiographical memory is a separate memory system. People usually don't forget their skills when suffering from amnesia.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Some humans are brilliant at chess, and can be beaten by other humans under the right circumstances. I think it would be a mistake to assume Data should be unbeatable by virtue of being an android, because chess in particular excels at being a psychological game. Sometimes the best strategy is to think creatively and not logically, and even if you lose you can make the game far more complex for your opponent.

Chess is psychological when played by humans because our brains can not process every possible board position for forty moves. When played by computers that can it is strictly mathematical.

 

[Unicron]

That's true, and in my experience one of the reasons many basic chess computers are not good opponents. It's the psychological aspect that makes chess, along with Go, fun. It's the ability to see possibilities that seem statistically unlikely, but might still let you win. And if you can't win, you can at least make your opponent's game much harder. My point is simply that just because Data's mechanical abilities might theoretically be beyond what a human can do, mentally and physically, it doesn't follow that he would therefore be superior in all circumstances. Just as some of the best chess players are incredible psychologically in some games, but in others they make perfectly normal mistakes or they miss something because it's very subtle strategically. They're not flawless solely because their experience is normally an advantage.

 

[DonIago]

Maybe Soong's programming of Data had a few glitches when it came to gamesmanship?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I've seen this episode so many times, and it never struck me as odd, but I'm really starting to wonder if maybe Crusher found it exciting to explore that option since she cannot remember her identity. Thoughts?

Any odd looks on her face can probably be attributed to the confusion over losing her memory.

And besides, we already know that Beverly doesn't like girls (the ending scene of "The Host"). I'm guessing that even if she lost her memory, she'd still know what kind of person she's attracted to.

 

[HGN2001]

I liked the beginning of "Conundrum" a lot. I wished it had taken a longer time to figure things out. It seemed like they managed to get the info from the computer too quickly. I would have liked to have seen the mystery drawn out a little more. Let's see these people interact more without knowing who's who.

Harry

 

[DonIago]

A two-parter?

 

[JesterFace]

There are episodes that just fall apart after one watch when you start to really think all the "what ifs".

'Conundrum' is one of those episodes that raises too many questions... "what if McDuff had taken command of the ship after the "memory loss beam" and "how come the aliens can manipulate minds but can't build a torpedo..."

 

[matthunter]

Chess is psychological when played by humans because our brains can not process every possible board position for forty moves. When played by computers that can it is strictly mathematical.

Data's not JUST a computer, though. He has the ability - though he often gets it wrong - to understand humanoid psychology and predict what course of action his opponent might take (see his assessment of Riker's likely moves in Peak Performance - ironically, another ep that deals with Data facing problems against an organic opponent). It's possible that, out of respect for Troi or as an exercise in developing his own insight into humanoids, Data is limiting how much he "brute forces" his moves and playing based on what he believes she will do in response.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

That's possible. It's also possible that Data let Troi win because he has learned strategies to be more popular. He knows Troi to be decadent when it comes to desserts so he found a way to provide her dessert and stroke her ego at the same time.

 

[HGN2001]

A two-parter?

That would have been a great idea. Part I would have been spent in discovery of who these people were. Getting the computer going would have had to have been a much tougher effort, and its revelations would have been the payoff of the first part. Then Part II would have been about the ruse that the aliens tried to foist on the Enterprise, and the slow, methodical discovery of same, all fleshed out with new background stuff on the characters.

Harry