Toward the sunset?
Episode 80
- Thread starter Laura Cynthia Chambers
- Start date
Toward the sunset?
3 seasons of TOS should cover more than five years. There are delays, transit time, shore leaves, quiet stetches... or is it realistic that extraordinary, universe-shattering events would be happening to them every week?! Paradise Syndrome alone covered a period of several months.
Agreed.
If we're really rationalizing then TAS took place during a second 5-year mission. The ship had been moderately refit with some new equipment in Engineering, a secondary access port on the Bridge and Chekov was perhaps off doing something else.
And that would mean TMP took place five or six years later than generally accepted, and thus accounting for the obvious change in the characters' appearances.
59 days +.
Or maybe the final mission had a stress-related aging effect on them. People's hair can turn gray or white with a shock.
I've never heard anyone claim TMP took place within that 5 year mission. Do they really? They made a point of removing any mention of five years in the films. They didn't say "five year mission" in TMP surely?
I'm just not used to paying attention to film events at all. The movies were the outside world's misinterpretation of Trek as far as I'm concerned.
I'm just not used to paying attention to film events at all. The movies were the outside world's misinterpretation of Trek as far as I'm concerned.
Given the fact that major refits, an apparently permanent change of captaincy, etc was happening, I'd say not.
Things can happen incredibly fast in the world of Star Trek. Like Kirk being promoted from cadet to Captain and only a few years later from Captain to Vice Admiral.
I just mean, assuming Kirk was doing a good job, why interrupt the mission needlessly? Just let it run its course unless there's a good reason, then change things.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_hour
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_hour
Well, maybe it was partly because of Kirk's own manipulations.
He certainly knows how to get what he wants. And all without going full-on pout face to the admirals.
That's how I felt about the finale of How I Met Your Mother. Fortunately, they included an alternate scene in the DVD boxed set that's replaced the finale in my HIMYM headcanon.
Seconded! I love that annual and I just pulled it out of my comic boxes to reread last night.
Not really. The story is told from the Enterprise crew's POV, not the Klingons.
Sounds like you need to read this:
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Strange_New_Worlds_(photonovel)
Those weren't necessarily the final missions of Kirk's crew. After all, with his very next sentence Icheb skips over 2 1/12 years to when Kirk resumed command of the Enterprise, so obviously he was omitting certain things from his report.
an episode with a moral dilemma that is not copped-out by the ship being in danger by Vaal or whatever. Yeah, make it a happy, stagnant civilization again, but nothing forcing Kirk's hand to intervene. And some plot element makes him choose to let it be. And no chuckling on the bridge at the end. It was Lazarus Colony, so the final lines are "And what of Lazarus? If only..."
That's how I felt about the finale of How I Met Your Mother. Fortunately, they included an alternate scene in the DVD boxed set that's replaced the finale in my HIMYM headcanon.
Never saw the show, although I've heard some details about it, including the ending. Never understood what was so bad about the ending, though.
Basically, I felt that it went against the optimistic nature of the series. More specifically... [SPOILERS]
They'd spent several years showing us all the ways that Ted and Robin were incompatible as a couple, so I wasn't exactly overjoyed to see them get together decades later in the finale. And after close to a decade of hearing about how amazing the Mother was going to be and how happy she & Ted were going to be together, it felt really rotten of them to kill her off. Especially since they nailed the casting with Cristin Milioti.
Basically, it was an ending that would have worked well if the show had been cancelled after 2-3 years. But after running as long as it did, it just didn't work any more. The characters were not the same people.
Basically, it was an ending that would have worked well if the show had been cancelled after 2-3 years. But after running as long as it did, it just didn't work any more. The characters were not the same people.
I see. As I understood it,
taking things full circle was the plan from the beginning and would've raised the question why the Ted character started his story years before he met his wife if that was the only point to his conversation. I did see a clip of the finale where the kids catch on and, based on what I know of the show, I think they're right: the story wasn't really about their mom. Had that been the case, what would've been the point of Ted starting his story when he and Robin first met?
I can't speak for the characters compatibility or incompatibility, but it had been my understanding that Ted and Robin had never fallen out of love with each other and the problems they had wouldn't have necessarily stumbling blocks in the future when they decide to give their relationship a second chance. Also, wasn't it established that the kid's mom had passes away by the time of the framing story, anyways? (I know the clip I saw mentioned that Ted had been widowed for six years, plenty of time to be ready to move on.)
I can't speak for the characters compatibility or incompatibility, but it had been my understanding that Ted and Robin had never fallen out of love with each other and the problems they had wouldn't have necessarily stumbling blocks in the future when they decide to give their relationship a second chance. Also, wasn't it established that the kid's mom had passes away by the time of the framing story, anyways? (I know the clip I saw mentioned that Ted had been widowed for six years, plenty of time to be ready to move on.)
Look, as I said before, I haven't seen this show yet, so my qualifications to analyze it are admittedly limited. But, when I first heard the spoilers about the finale, it seemed like the most logical conclusion, all things considered, gave the show more re-watchability (since there's now a second, hidden storyline to follow), and didn't sound like a bad ending in and of itself. (Admittedly, as someone who dabbles in creative projects, I have respect for storytellers and such who stick to their guns and tell the story that they feel they should, rather than changing it because the fans want them to.) As always, your mileage may vary. I just find it interesting how one simple thing was viewed with so many different reactions.
OK, I'll try to answer these HIMYM questions as generally as possible, because if I get too specific, it'll spoil more of the series for you. Proceed at your own risk.
And it wasn't just about the events that led to them meeting. It was also about Ted becoming the person he needed to be so that he & the Mother were right for each other. And the Ted we saw for most of the last few seasons had grown beyond Robin.
All that said, I do still recommend the show. Their long-term planning led them to do some great foreshadowing and running gags, and I still find it very enjoyable to watch in reruns (I just mentally rewrite that ending).
Sorry for the off-topic digression.
Generally speaking, because Ted meeting Robin kicked off a long series of events that eventually led to Ted meeting the Mother. The cool thing was that you could look back at several seasons' worth of the show and see that: "Wow, if Ted hadn't met Robin, then A wouldn't have happened, which led to B, which led to C, which led to Ted being in the right place at the right time to meet the mother."
And it wasn't just about the events that led to them meeting. It was also about Ted becoming the person he needed to be so that he & the Mother were right for each other. And the Ted we saw for most of the last few seasons had grown beyond Robin.
Not really. As I said, we'd been shown a lot of reasons why Ted & Robin weren't right for each other, and they were good ones. They had chemistry to be sure, but they were also incompatible in some pretty fundamental ways, and there were good reasons why they weren't together. And the finale kind of steamrolled over all of that to give us an ending that no longer fit who the characters were.
The Mother passing away wasn't officially revealed until the finale, although they'd definitely hinted at it before. And yeah, for the characters it had been six years, but for the viewers it was about six minutes. We got the meeting and the happy ending they'd been leading to for several seasons (which was pretty wonderful, BTW), and then we were almost immediately told, "Oh, BTW, this chick dies after a few years, and Ted's going to get back together with his first girlfriend. Laterz!" So yeah, it didn't really work.
All that said, I do still recommend the show. Their long-term planning led them to do some great foreshadowing and running gags, and I still find it very enjoyable to watch in reruns (I just mentally rewrite that ending).
Sorry for the off-topic digression.
Episodic shows in the 60s didn't necessarily have finale episodes. It wasn't really a tradition until recent times. I do recall Dick Van Dyke's last episode being a definite finale, because they knew they were ending. But most shows of the time just had normal episodes right up to the end.
For a "planned" TOS finale, I'd have liked to see just another adventure, but with some sort of acknowledgement during the tag that they were continuing on with the 5 year mission. Something like the afformentioned Sylvester McCoy speech at the end of his Doctor Who run. Kirk was fairly literate, I'm sure something from classic literature would have served.
For a "planned" TOS finale, I'd have liked to see just another adventure, but with some sort of acknowledgement during the tag that they were continuing on with the 5 year mission. Something like the afformentioned Sylvester McCoy speech at the end of his Doctor Who run. Kirk was fairly literate, I'm sure something from classic literature would have served.
I'd like the ending to be ambiguous. If anything perhaps a bit of a 'feel-good' episode with all the main characters working together. Definitely no signing-off or end-of-5YM episode.
I thought all the "last episodes" for all the other series just spoiled it for me. No imaging other adventures. Picard getting a deadly disease, Sisko being transformed whatever, the only likeable character being killed off in "Enterprise" - meh
I actually don't have that much of a problem with "Turnabout Intruder" as others seem to have. If they cut out the last line maybe...
I thought all the "last episodes" for all the other series just spoiled it for me. No imaging other adventures. Picard getting a deadly disease, Sisko being transformed whatever, the only likeable character being killed off in "Enterprise" - meh
I actually don't have that much of a problem with "Turnabout Intruder" as others seem to have. If they cut out the last line maybe...
Some series in that decade had planned final episodes, or considered producing them.
- One of the most famous series finales in history--The Fugitive's 2-part "The Judgement" aired in 1967.
- Route 66 had and produced a 2-part series finale, "Where There's a Will, There's a Way," airing in 1964.
- Although The Prisoner's 1968 finale is seen as suggesting a loop or ambiguous, there is a finale to be found in there.
- The Andy Griffith Show's series finale had Andy, son & wife leave Mayberry, but the last few episodes also served as the pilot for the sequel series, Mayberry R.F.D.
So, a number of series had definite conclusions in the 1960s.
Some fans have suggested series with no true finale can be watched in a loop (the idea being to let the good times roll on), but contrary to stereotyping, many 60s series had enough character, plotting progression & visual changes that there's no way a series (TOS, for example) could follow "Turnabout Intruder" with the either pilot, or "The Corbomite Maneuver," and so on.
"All Good Things ... " is how TNG should've wrapped up, knowing the movies were coming. But I agree, completely, that a STAR TREK series, on television, or otherwise, should end on a high note and give a strong impression that "The Adventure Continues ..." without and beyond us.
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