Enterprise versus the Franchise?
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I'm a hardcore Niner 
and I have a lot of affection for ENT. VOY was definitely worse and frankly I don't even like TNG as much.
I loved the idea of a prequel when we were first hearing about ENT, about six months or more before its debut (and before the series had a name). I was disappointed in the execution - basically I expected the ENT milieu to be vastly different from TNG et al, rougher, more military, less "evolved," more cowboyish, something that could have frightened even James T. Kirk, but it ended up being something that wouldn't have scared even old granny Picard - and I hated the persistent episodic format, carried over from TNG and VOY - but I liked a lot of the cast (especially Connor Trinneer) and loved Manny Coto's approach when he took over S4, even if it was "fannish."
ENT could have been a great Trek series, up there with DS9 and TOS. I wouldn't be at all adverse to seeing another stab at it, with at least some of the cast (Trip being the definite one, and frak that dren about how he "died," that was just a holosuite novel).
PS, there was a lively argument in the Future of Trek forum (because there was no Enterprise forum until the show got a name) for several months leading up to ENT's premiere. There was a firmly established group who were certain that ENT would fail due to the fact that the technology would have to be unimpressive in order for it to fit with canon (which they dubbed the "duff tech" argument).
I was in the camp that held that the technology could be primitive by the standards of what we were used to, and the stories could still be good - or even improved, because there would be less possibility of the technobabble fix ending that especially plagued VOY.
But ironically enough, the "duff tech" problem didn't emerge as much of an issue compared with other things.
and I have a lot of affection for ENT. VOY was definitely worse and frankly I don't even like TNG as much.I loved the idea of a prequel when we were first hearing about ENT, about six months or more before its debut (and before the series had a name). I was disappointed in the execution - basically I expected the ENT milieu to be vastly different from TNG et al, rougher, more military, less "evolved," more cowboyish, something that could have frightened even James T. Kirk, but it ended up being something that wouldn't have scared even old granny Picard - and I hated the persistent episodic format, carried over from TNG and VOY - but I liked a lot of the cast (especially Connor Trinneer) and loved Manny Coto's approach when he took over S4, even if it was "fannish."
ENT could have been a great Trek series, up there with DS9 and TOS. I wouldn't be at all adverse to seeing another stab at it, with at least some of the cast (Trip being the definite one, and frak that dren about how he "died," that was just a holosuite novel).
PS, there was a lively argument in the Future of Trek forum (because there was no Enterprise forum until the show got a name) for several months leading up to ENT's premiere. There was a firmly established group who were certain that ENT would fail due to the fact that the technology would have to be unimpressive in order for it to fit with canon (which they dubbed the "duff tech" argument).
I was in the camp that held that the technology could be primitive by the standards of what we were used to, and the stories could still be good - or even improved, because there would be less possibility of the technobabble fix ending that especially plagued VOY.
But ironically enough, the "duff tech" problem didn't emerge as much of an issue compared with other things.
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Well, I love Enterprise, and I've been a fan since the early '70s.
I believe that Enterprise is going to follow in the footsteps of TOS -- unappreciated in its first run but gaining a following in coming years among Trek fans old and new. We're seeing it here already. Since ENT became widely available via SciFi channel, new members have popping in to say how much they love the show. And some who quit the show have revisisted ENT and think it's better than they remembered.
Seriously. My electives were more intense than this. Lucky you, OP.
Truthfully?!
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I think the angle to take on this is the growing feeling of modern day fans have. This happens with many current shows. The Internet is a great place to express an opinion, but many fans take it further. They cannot understand why things are always they way they want them to be. In the past, if you did not like a show, you did not watch the show and left it at that. Now many fans feel the need to hate a show, criticize the people involved, and chastise people who like it. Look at all the people who hate American Idol without ever watching an episode. Still, they will let you know how awful AI is, how stupid people are for watching it, and how it promotes people with no talent into stardom. They know all of this without ever watching. 
K
ktanner3
Guest
Hello, I'm new to this board. My name is Kira (yes, that's my real name), and I basically joined this board to ask the following questions (though I might stick around because I am a Trek fan). Basically I'm applying for a research fellowship called a SSHRC, and I've chosen the topic "Enterprise versus the Franchise" for my thesis.
What I'm curious to know is whether or not the fan community believes that Enterprise is the most hated of the Star Trek series (although I understand it is competing with Voyager for the honour) and why.
Another aspect of my research seems to point to the fact that Enterprise appeals mostly to people who were only mild fans of the other series, or who were never really "into" Star Trek in the first place. Does this ring true to you all, or not?
Thanks to anyone who takes the time to respond to this.
Enterprise got good in season 4. Far as the one I hate the most that would be Voyager. You can do a poll and find out for yourself. But I believe it is the most hated here.
Incredible that you can get a funded research fellowship to chat about opinions of Star Trek.
I need one of those.
But in response to your question, I can only tell you what my impressions are about this particular community. And I don't necessarily know if you will get the same answers if you go to Startrek.com, which tends to attract more casual fans who might be more here today/gone tomorrow in terms of their community affiliation there.
On this board, I would definitely say that Enterprise is the most disliked of the Trek shows with Voyager in 4th place right in front of it. Deep Space Nine and Star Trek (the original series) are probably the most popular, with The Next Generation occupying the middle position of the bunch.
I don't think that this board is representative of all Star Trek fans, however. If you go to a Star Trek Convention, for example, I think that you will find that TNG is alot more popular than it is here.
I don't know what that is...but that is the way things have turned out here.
And yeah, I do think that alot of hard-core Enterprise fans were 'new' fans who had not seen the other shows (or very little in passing) before watching Enterprise. Certainly not all Enterprise fans are in that boat...but I did notice a disproportionately large number of the really hard-core posters in the Enterprise forum would eventually reveal that they were new fans to Star Trek with Enterprise.
You might get different opinions from others...but that is the way things sit from my perspective of almost 7 years on this board.
I need one of those.
But in response to your question, I can only tell you what my impressions are about this particular community. And I don't necessarily know if you will get the same answers if you go to Startrek.com, which tends to attract more casual fans who might be more here today/gone tomorrow in terms of their community affiliation there.
On this board, I would definitely say that Enterprise is the most disliked of the Trek shows with Voyager in 4th place right in front of it. Deep Space Nine and Star Trek (the original series) are probably the most popular, with The Next Generation occupying the middle position of the bunch.
I don't think that this board is representative of all Star Trek fans, however. If you go to a Star Trek Convention, for example, I think that you will find that TNG is alot more popular than it is here.
I don't know what that is...but that is the way things have turned out here.
And yeah, I do think that alot of hard-core Enterprise fans were 'new' fans who had not seen the other shows (or very little in passing) before watching Enterprise. Certainly not all Enterprise fans are in that boat...but I did notice a disproportionately large number of the really hard-core posters in the Enterprise forum would eventually reveal that they were new fans to Star Trek with Enterprise.
You might get different opinions from others...but that is the way things sit from my perspective of almost 7 years on this board.
I would probably agree with the last statement - although it's hard to quantify why since, in many ways, it shamelessly borrowed most of its aspects from the preceding series - TNG more than the rest - rather than creating a strong identity of its own. It may, in fact, be that 'familiarity,' in what some may consider to be inappropriate ways, that made it less popular with some who were already fans of Star Trek - it seemed like a poor copy of the existing material.Hello, I'm new to this board. My name is Kira (yes, that's my real name), and I basically joined this board to ask the following questions (though I might stick around because I am a Trek fan). Basically I'm applying for a research fellowship called a SSHRC, and I've chosen the topic "Enterprise versus the Franchise" for my thesis.
What I'm curious to know is whether or not the fan community believes that Enterprise is the most hated of the Star Trek series (although I understand it is competing with Voyager for the honour) and why.
Another aspect of my research seems to point to the fact that Enterprise appeals mostly to people who were only mild fans of the other series, or who were never really "into" Star Trek in the first place. Does this ring true to you all, or not?
Thanks to anyone who takes the time to respond to this.
As to it being "hated," I think that may be overly strong - the show wasn't, IMO, good enough to be hated. It was a disappointment, not simply from a Trek viewpoint, but based upon expectations for sci-fi, for drama, for fiction in general, with lazy conceptualization and lazy writing, and a cast which, on the whole, either didn't fit their roles or simply didn't mesh.
75% of the stories from the first two years could, in capable hands, have been very good, but something happened between the story ideas and the story executions that left them very sub-standard. I'd prefer, in general, to forget the last two years entirely; it's hard to see what they did as 'damage control,' since they failed to address the show's real problems.
Welcome to the board, Kira!
This was the problem with Enterprise for me. Too many of the early episodes seemed to be repeats of other episodes that were generally done better or just weren't that great to begin with.
I've been a life long Trek fan, born in 1985 and obsessed with Trek for as long as I can remember. In Kindergarten when everyone else was playing X-Men, I was Worf killing aliens with a bat'leth and phaser. I watched all of TNG, freaked out when I found out that my Dad was watching DS9 without me (it was on after my bed time and he wasn't taping it for me, one tantrum fixed that in time for me to watch from season four on), watched every episode of Voyager occasionally loving and hating it, and Enterprise was the Trek series that had me turn off the television. I don't think I got half way through the first season, it was just contradicting previous history (continuity isn't a bad thing) and seemed like I'd watched it all before. My Dad brought me back to it with the start of the Xindi arc and from that point on, I was back with Trek.
So is Enterprise the worst? Possibly. Voyager had episodes that were worse, but at least it wasn't generic and when it focused on the Doctor the show was awesome. However the last two seasons of Enterprise didn't have one episode that I hated. So its kind of a coin toss between the two for me.
I'm not terribly qualified to discuss Enterprise as it's the only show I never followed at length, but I did look forward to the first episode and watched the first three or four. I didn't dislike it by any means, but for some reason I just never followed through with watching it for very long. I think part of the reason may have been a silly irrational, personal thing (I used to be a big Quantum Leap fan.. for me Scott Bakula IS Sam Beckett, and that was a bit of a distraction. Due to nothing more than my own preconceptions I kept half expecting Al to pop up). I have seen a few episodes here and there on Sky since and enjoyed them, and I will give it another proper go at some point.
I really liked Voyager and DS9, and think TOS and TNG are the best, even though I only got to see the latter as repeats. If it helps, I know a couple of people at work who are more casual viewers than I am, and they both only like/know TNG and Voyager.
Good luck with your funding application
I really liked Voyager and DS9, and think TOS and TNG are the best, even though I only got to see the latter as repeats. If it helps, I know a couple of people at work who are more casual viewers than I am, and they both only like/know TNG and Voyager.
Good luck with your funding application
Congratulations on the SSHRC.
I've watched Trek since TOS, and I consider myself a pretty serious fan. All the series had flaws, all were pretty good regardless. I consider Voyager the weakest, but it was still an excellent show.
DS9 could be very strong... it also had some extremely annoying quirks.
I thought Enterprise was a fantastic show. I'd have liked to see more of Malcolm and Hoshi, and Mayweather should either have been developed or not included in the first place, but all in all I liked the characters and the stories. Sure, there was the occasional weak episode, but only the finale was truly awful.
I've watched Trek since TOS, and I consider myself a pretty serious fan. All the series had flaws, all were pretty good regardless. I consider Voyager the weakest, but it was still an excellent show.
DS9 could be very strong... it also had some extremely annoying quirks.
I thought Enterprise was a fantastic show. I'd have liked to see more of Malcolm and Hoshi, and Mayweather should either have been developed or not included in the first place, but all in all I liked the characters and the stories. Sure, there was the occasional weak episode, but only the finale was truly awful.
Hi, welcome to the board, Kira.
I've watch the show since 1977 since I was 5 yrs old. My older brother made me, and it has stuck for 30 plus years. I'm a die hard fan and a realist. I like all the shows (Even Voyager which is the weakest spin-off to me, i still own every episode (used) on DVD).
I'm hold a mock rank as Commodore in STARFLEET (www.sfi.org) been a member for 14 years. I also make fun of some trek, if it sucks. I also watch many other Sci-Fi/Fantasy shows as well.
I've watch the show since 1977 since I was 5 yrs old. My older brother made me, and it has stuck for 30 plus years. I'm a die hard fan and a realist. I like all the shows (Even Voyager which is the weakest spin-off to me, i still own every episode (used) on DVD).
I'm hold a mock rank as Commodore in STARFLEET (www.sfi.org) been a member for 14 years. I also make fun of some trek, if it sucks. I also watch many other Sci-Fi/Fantasy shows as well.
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