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Enterprise versus the Franchise?

cooledskin

Ensign
Newbie
Hello, I'm new to this board. My name is Kira (yes, that's my real name), and I basically joined this board to ask the following questions (though I might stick around because I am a Trek fan). Basically I'm applying for a research fellowship called a SSHRC, and I've chosen the topic "Enterprise versus the Franchise" for my thesis.

What I'm curious to know is whether or not the fan community believes that Enterprise is the most hated of the Star Trek series (although I understand it is competing with Voyager for the honour) and why.
Another aspect of my research seems to point to the fact that Enterprise appeals mostly to people who were only mild fans of the other series, or who were never really "into" Star Trek in the first place. Does this ring true to you all, or not?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to respond to this. :)
 
Big fan of old school Trek and TNG

but I didn't like DS9 or Voyager so much. I loved some DS9 episodes, loved the DS9 cast, it had some good stories but I think overall a WB show called Babylon-5 did it better. Voyager had some bad episodes but there were a lot of episodes I loved.

Enterprise was not done right, but its final season was great and at least it went out with a bang unlike tv shows which drag on forever.
 
Thanks for the reply.

I also wanted to mention that I've spent the last week reading everything I could on Enterprise, including on this site, Omega Sector, Subspace Comms Network, Memory Alpha and Star Trek [dot] com. I never knew I knew so little about something that had been so influential during my growth (it was prime bonding time for my dad and I).

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that I have a general idea of the issues people have with Enterprise, but what I want to know is whether or not people think it's more hated than other series, and if so why is it so despised, not what makes it worthy of hatred if indeed you think it is.

I have my own theories but I don't want to taint the thread by asking "leading" questions. :)
 
Enterprise was a huge wasted opportunity. As a prequel series it could have explored Star Trek canon in detail but instead wasted it's four years (Next Gen, DS9 & Voyager all lasted 7 years) with retreads of episodes from past series and new story lines that walked a fine line of breaking with canon.
 
No, I don't think it was "more hated" than the other series. Not that many people watched the three series that followed TNG to begin with.
 
Hello, I'm new to this board. My name is Kira (yes, that's my real name),

Not surprising. It's the phoenetic spelling of the Irish name Ciara. The latter far predates the TV show.

What I'm curious to know is whether or not the fan community believes that Enterprise is the most hated of the Star Trek series (although I understand it is competing with Voyager for the honour) and why.

It's either Enterprise or Voyager, yes. Personally; for me it's Enterprise which is the weakest link in the franchise; but many others would consider Voyager to be that link. So I think it's more or less even, judging from this board.

Another aspect of my research seems to point to the fact that Enterprise appeals mostly to people who were only mild fans of the other series, or who were never really "into" Star Trek in the first place. Does this ring true to you all, or not?
Yes and no. The fourth season in particular had aggressive fan service - gratuituous references to and building upon arcane points of Star Trek lore. One example: In "Through a Mirror, Darkly", the plot is built upon two TOS episodes - "Mirror, Mirror" and "The Tholian Web", and includes an alien from yet a third episode, "Arena", and has a number of other nods. I'm not sure what entertainment value it has for people who didn't get the numerous references. The same can be said for much of S4's material; which may work as sci-fi action/adventure to the casual viewer but is more geared towards the hardcore fan.

But that's the fourth season. The show's first season almost went out of its way in an effort to distinguish itself from previous shows, with the absence of Star Trek in the title; pop rock theme song and so on. S2 had a similar attitude, and while S3's arc rewards viewer loyalty it doesn't really require knowledge of the other shows. But even these seasons contain a number of references and the reoccurence of aliens - the Ferengi, the Borg - which would mainly have significance for those with a knowledge of the franchise.
 
Enterprise appeals to me, and I'm a hardcore fan.
I'll watch anything that has the Trek name on it except the animated series and Abrams' movie. And fan films like New Voyages. I don't give a rat's ass about what a fanboy with even more time on his hands then I do does.
 
What I'm curious to know is whether or not the fan community believes that Enterprise is the most hated of the Star Trek series (although I understand it is competing with Voyager for the honour) and why.
For me, despite running three seasons shorter, I think ENT surpasses VOY.

While ENT was obviously flawed in many ways, I do think a lot of the criticism is unfair or unfounded.

ENT tried a little bit of everything. In its first two seasons it wanted to simply be a "Star Trek series set in the 22nd century" without necessarily feeling obligated to focus on tie-ins to TOS all the while following the TOS/TNG formula. It was more about showing the first crew going out into deep space and how their reactions were different from future crews. I think this might have been a mistake because they thought they could simply take an old chestnut from one of the earlier shows and having a new crew process it would alone make it interesting.

Instead, in a lot of instances it felt like we had already seen a particularly story before on another Trek series and was done better. That isn't to say that the first two seasons were a wash. There were plenty of interesting if well worn stories(most written by Mike Sussman and Phyllis Strong)--Broken Bow, Fight or Flight, Shuttlepod One, The Andorian Incident, Fallen Hero, Carbon Creek, Minefield, Dead Stop, The Catwalk, Cease Fire, Future Tense, Regeneration.

Many fans felt that ENT needed to be more arc-based. I think a case could be made for that but I actually felt ENT's problem was more because of writing and not format. Still, no one can really deny how the Xindi arc energized the series.

I thought season three was a vast improvement over the first two seasons and was the next identity the show sampled following the standalone TOS/TNG format. Looking back it was one of if not the first series I watched that experimented with the style that Lost and Heroes uses--throwing a bunch of questions/mysteries at the audience leaving you scratching your head as to what is really going on and who is telling the truth. It really did try to forge its own identity here without relying on Trek staples by introducing the Xindi, the Expanse.

It also added some important elements sorely lacking from the first two years--mystery, interesting plots, twists, suspense, thrilling action, fatalism, a darker edge and jeopardy.

Then season four comes along where the series once again dabbles with a new format/identity--embracing the prequel premise. I really enjoyed this season and felt it was the most consistent. I think a lot of fans enjoyed it so much because it didn't require you to like the ENT characters because they were secondary and the stories they told added some rich backstory to the Trek mythology. So if you were a big Trek fan you'd be interested with the new insight or intriguing take by the writers on what happened in this era you might not have expected.

So I really think the Xindi arc and the season four stories really elevated ENT above VOY.
Another aspect of my research seems to point to the fact that Enterprise appeals mostly to people who were only mild fans of the other series, or who were never really "into" Star Trek in the first place. Does this ring true to you all, or not?
Somewhat. I have seen some TOS fans say they gave up on the 24th century series and ENT brought them back to Trek. Others love all four pf the previous series and hate ENT. I've seen some say they love TNG and ENT. Some say it is as good as DS9. I think it is hard to say for sure. Personally I watched all five shows. TNG is my favorite followed by DS9/TOS then ENT then VOY.
 
What I'm curious to know is whether or not the fan community believes that Enterprise is the most hated of the Star Trek series (although I understand it is competing with Voyager for the honour) and why.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me ENT was a disaster. All the problems that I felt VOY suffered from seemed to carry over into ENT including bland characters, uninteresting stories, the gratuitous "babe-in-a-catsuit", and IMO an unnecessary focus on time travel and the Xindi/Suliban/Sphere Builders. I was also unhappy with the fourth season where it seemed Coto was becoming increasingly fanboyish

Another aspect of my research seems to point to the fact that Enterprise appeals mostly to people who were only mild fans of the other series, or who were never really "into" Star Trek in the first place. Does this ring true to you all, or not?

Can't really say, since it didn't appeal to me. I was a TNG fan and a HUGE DS9 fan before ENT began. Personally I detested VOY, but had positive hopes for ENT before it started. Unfortunately, it was nothing but a disappointment.

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to respond to this. :)
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In my view TNG, Voyager, and Enterprise are all more or less equally bad shows, but TNG generally gets a free pass regarding that only due to nostalgic memories of it.

TNG, Voyager, and Enterprise pretty much all suffer from one-dimensional bland talking-head characters that never get developed, who's dialogue is mostly interchangeable with each other. And equally bland stories and tons of meaningless filler episodes (ie: the holodeck goes haywire in the middle of a 'holo-novel' that the crew are playing in).

It is a popular view that Voyager and Enterprise are what made Trek go downhill and ruined the franchise. However IMO, reaslistically it should be "Star Trek: The Original Series & Deep Space Nine vs. the franchise" since those two have tangible qualities that make them head and shoulders above the other 3 shows (internal conflict among the crew and versus enemies they encounter, clever humor, dialogue that is distinct to the character saying it, interesting unique characters, compellng stories etc.) In addition to not suffering from the aforementioned drawbacks of the other 3 shows, or when they do, at least not to nearly so great of an extent.

Reason why IMO TNG, Voyager, and Enterprise are bad shows and TOS and DS9 are not is because TOS had no involvement from Rick Berman, and DS9 had minimal involvement from Rick Berman beyond Season 1 or 2. Berman imposed his bland formula onto almost every episode of TNG, Voyager, and Enterprise, and that's why they are all more or less the same bad quality.

As for Enterprise appealing to people who are not Star Trek fans: that is what the makers of Enterprise tried to do with Enterprise, but failed very badly at doing. They took the name "Star Trek" out of the Enterprise show title for the first two seasons for the sake of trying to attract hip new fans to the show and not caring whether Star Trek fans bothered to watch. But then they plastered the "Star Trek" title onto the show in Season 3 because they realized that almost no one was watching Enterprise other than "Star Trek" fans, and even then, only a small fraction of Star Trek fans were watching it.
 
i'm a big Trek fan. i love all five shows. VGR is the weakest, but i still like it.

I enjoyed ENT, but it could indeed have been better.

as far as 'casual' fans go, my Mum watched it with me (she never really watched DS9, but did watch VGR and TNG to some extent) and she enjoyed it (apart from the crappy finale). Mostly her comments were along the lines of 'that was good' or 'hm, that was a bit weird'. with the finale she actually said it 'wasn't that good' and was generally unimpressed with it. for her that's equivalent to me saying it sucked ass.

she didn't have any problems with any of the 'fan-wank' of season 4. she either enjoyed it or didn't.
 
I am a long time casual Trekkie who loved TNG and ENT, I am a girl 32 who watched both of those series religiously when they first aired. I really enjoyed both for the characters but they are different TNG was more stand alone eps occasionally they would have a eps that would be connected but that was not the norm. ENT was more overall plot based with a few stand alones thrown in.

I did watch VOY the first season but only ocassionally after that it didn't grab me like TNG did previously and ENT after.

I did catch a few eps of DS9 here and there but it never interested me but I loved Babylon 5

I don't think it was a bad series but I do think it gets a bad rep from some.
 
Welcome to TBBS, cooledskin. I hope you enjoy the board.

[...] I have a general idea of the issues people have with Enterprise, but what I want to know is whether or not people think it's more hated than other series, and if so why is it so despised, not what makes it worthy of hatred if indeed you think it is.
Like a great many things, it's a matter of perspective - who you ask, and where you ask it - as to which is the best / worst anything, and Trek is no exception. Until I joined this board I had no idea I was supposed to despise Voyager. Pretty much every poll conducted here indicates the majority of the respondents prefer TOS and DS9. I couldn't care less about any of that, but I mention it to support my "who / where you ask" statement above.

Those polls also indicate that - on this board, at least - it's a close call as to which of Voyager and Enterprise is more disliked (some do indeed appear to actually hate either or both; I don't comprehend hating a TV show, but that's beside the point). I happen to like Voyager a great deal (while being fully aware of its flaws), but I found Enterprise essentially unwatchable. I don't dislike it; I just found it unappealing. For mine, it had the blandest, most unappealing and uninteresting characters of any of the Trek series and for that reason I simply couldn't muster any interest in watching. As for the casual fan aspect, I can't speak to that as I was a Trek fan well before Enterprise existed. There are a very wide range of viewpoints on that subject as well; perhaps you'll get a few responses from several of those.

It's an interesting thesis subject, anyway. Best wishes with it. :bolian:
 
Hello, I'm new to this board. My name is Kira (yes, that's my real name), and I basically joined this board to ask the following questions (though I might stick around because I am a Trek fan). Basically I'm applying for a research fellowship called a SSHRC, and I've chosen the topic "Enterprise versus the Franchise" for my thesis.

What I'm curious to know is whether or not the fan community believes that Enterprise is the most hated of the Star Trek series (although I understand it is competing with Voyager for the honour) and why.
Another aspect of my research seems to point to the fact that Enterprise appeals mostly to people who were only mild fans of the other series, or who were never really "into" Star Trek in the first place. Does this ring true to you all, or not?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to respond to this. :)
I have only one question for you, so it won't take much of your time.
1. Where were these courses and professors when I was working my butt off in college???
Thank you in advance for taking the time to respond to this. [also in smartass mode, but really serious]
Feel free to quote me, but only if proper credit is given in your footnotes, and good luck.
 
Many people have issues with the producer, Rick Berman. He was heavily involved with VOY and ENT. I think the reason many ST fans pile on these 2 series is because of Berman's dominance. Being the Devil's Advocate, I think his task was to pull in non Trek fans and keeping enough of the fan base(which he did) at the same time. This couldn't have been an easy job.
 
Welcome to TBBS, cooledskin. I hope you enjoy the board.

[...] I have a general idea of the issues people have with Enterprise, but what I want to know is whether or not people think it's more hated than other series, and if so why is it so despised, not what makes it worthy of hatred if indeed you think it is.
Like a great many things, it's a matter of perspective - who you ask, and where you ask it - as to which is the best / worst anything, and Trek is no exception. Until I joined this board I had no idea I was supposed to despise Voyager. Pretty much every poll conducted here indicates the majority of the respondents prefer TOS and DS9. I couldn't care less about any of that, but I mention it to support my "who / where you ask" statement above.

Those polls also indicate that - on this board, at least - it's a close call as to which of Voyager and Enterprise is more disliked (some do indeed appear to actually hate either or both; I don't comprehend hating a TV show, but that's beside the point). I happen to like Voyager a great deal (while being fully aware of its flaws), but I found Enterprise essentially unwatchable. I don't dislike it; I just found it unappealing. For mine, it had the blandest, most unappealing and uninteresting characters of any of the Trek series and for that reason I simply couldn't muster any interest in watching. As for the casual fan aspect, I can't speak to that as I was a Trek fan well before Enterprise existed. There are a very wide range of viewpoints on that subject as well; perhaps you'll get a few responses from several of those.

It's an interesting thesis subject, anyway. Best wishes with it. :bolian:

Me, I can't understand continuous posting on a series the poster hates or posting on an unpopular character. I call this the "Gollum Syndrome"..."We hatesss the Wesley Crusher and the Voyager...it has taken our Precious the Star Trek!!!" Try that in your thesis. No sarcasm intended.
 
Enterprise was my favorite star trek series. I know most people don't feel the same way but I connected with it in a way that I didn't with the other ones. It was good from the start and seasons 3-4 were excellent and probably the best two seasons of star trek period.
 
Wow, thanks so much for all the replies! I really appreciate it. I'm presenting a tentative version of this paper at a conference in early May, and then submitting the full proposal in October. After that, I have to wait until NEXT May to see if I get the funding (which would cover my grad school expenses and then some)....
So, basically there's lot sof time for response. If I get the funding I might pursue publication, and if I do, I will be contacting members whose information I'd like to use, to acquire proper permission, crediting information, etcetera. For the conference I'll contact a smaller number of people.

Personally, I've always loved Enterprise, though season 1 and 2 were less fun for me than others. I don't dislike any Trek series, they're all good for different reasons, and appeal to me in different moods. I like to load TOS onto my iPod video when I head to the gym. Nothing like working out to Spock. :techman:
I actually pulled my boyfriend into watching Enterprise and Voyager, he won't watch the other series (which is what made me think that perhaps those shows were designed to appeal to non-Trekkers). I hope to raise my daughter to love Trek as much as I do. ♥

By the way, for those of you who are interested, when you propose a thesis you can basically pick any subject you want in the Humanities (I'm a religion and gender studies student). Sociology is particularly well-suited to Trek studies. :p
 
I don't hate Enterprise, I just felt it was the weakest Trek series, and a weak series in general. It felt like the creative well had just run dry, and even when the prospect of story arcs came to pass, they didn't really have the energy or the acting talent to take it anywhere special. I think some fans were a little turned off by a weak VOY series, so it would have taken an exceptional effort to win fans back with ENT. Instead the series sort of stumbled around in season's 1 and 2, and it was pretty much over after that.
 
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