enterprise : the romulan war

[ChristopherPike]

Yeah I doubt a bio THAT IS ONLY VISIBLE TO PEOPLE WITH HDTVS counts for that much unless again the 1000 person crewed Enterprise-D really only has one bathroom on the whole damned ship.

That second screen of the bio was something that's actually not even visable onscreen. Also I honestly doubt if any Executive Producer working on TNG, seriously thought there was just one toilet on the whole ship.

Unlike somebody who held such a position on ENT, who undoubtedly ran the ideas by the writing staff and series co-creator for approval. Thinking that they were never truly going to fully provide closure to these characters, because of the cancellation... and then thought, what clues can we throw out there in absolutely anyway possible?

 

[Christopher]

It's not a question of favouring one over the other anymore, since we're talking about different universes now. If we're talking about Trek literature, and sadly that's all we can be with regard to the Prime Universe... then I think Sussman's bio ought to become the definitive one. He outranks Pocket Books writers surely?

There is no "rank." Non-canon is non-canon. Authorial intent from behind-the-scenes materials such as writers' bibles, technical manuals, tie-in books like Pathways or Legends of the Ferengi, etc. has often been contradicted by later Trek productions. It's no more binding than any other tie-in material. TV and film producers would not let their creative freedom in making the shows and films be restricted by what they said in tie-ins or articles or interviews that only a tiny fraction of the viewing audience would be familiar with. So it's all subject to contradiction regardless of the source. A ton of stuff from the TNG writers' bible was contradicted on the show. A lot of things from the Okudas' TNG Tech Manual were ignored or contradicted. Conjectural dates from the Star Trek Chronology were contradicted in later productions like First Contact and "Q2."

Whatever happens there's no need to reconcile Archer's death into one single timeline event. There's nothing preventing him still being alive and well, in the Neroverse... if those writers so choose.

Except common sense. The only way for him to be alive is to distort probability to a ludicrous degree. And there's already been far, far too much of that. Too many Trek regulars have been made immortal through Genesis planets, transporter tricks, or other such means. Enough is enough. Let at least some Trek regulars have remotely sane life expectancies by the standards of their generations.

You're right. I completely forgot about that. Is there any evidence Future Guy's agenda included the Tandarans though? Their government was certainly concerned about who gave the Cabal orders, but that doesn't necessarily mean much. Maybe that was the Suliban Cabal's agenda? He gave them genetic alterations in payment for doing his bidding, but perhaps getting back at the Tandarans was outside of all that? Just something personal, while they also ran errands to fulfil their part of a bargain.

Let's just say that I'll defer replying to that question until, ohh, on or around April 26.

 

[ChristopherPike]

Actually... rethinking about FG's motivation in "The Expanse", he's not particularly interested in Earth's survival. Or the Federation's. Not even the lead character in ENT. He'll be 'dead' by the season finale anyway. It's self preservation. It's more to do with pursuading Archer to take the fastest ship in the quadrant to the Delphic Expanse, otherwise by the mid-28th Century that's all the quadrant will consist of!

Except common sense. The only way for him to be alive is to distort probability to a ludicrous degree. And there's already been far, far too much of that. Too many Trek regulars have been made immortal through Genesis planets, transporter tricks, or other such means. Enough is enough. Let at least some Trek regulars have remotely sane life expectancies by the standards of their generations.

Oh well, that's official then... You're just no fun anymore!

 

[BrotherBenny]

I wondered about Future Guy warning Archer about the Xindi. Did he do it because he wouldn't have existed without the Federation being created? Or did he do it because whatever race he was from was about to be destroyed by the Sphere Builder war in the future?

 

[ChristopherPike]

I wondered about Future Guy warning Archer about the Xindi. Did he do it because he wouldn't have existed without the Federation being created? Or did he do it because whatever race he was from was about to be destroyed by the Sphere Builder war in the future?

His homeworld would probably have been swallowed up by the Expanse as it expanded outwards. The Sphere Builders, an enemy of the Federation far in the future, were making our galaxy habitable for themselves in the past. In the episode, "Home" even Soval conceeds that opposing Archer's decision to take Enterprise in to deal with the Xindi was a mistake, since someday Vulcan would also have been consumed by it.

 

[Janos]

Let's just say that I'll defer replying to that question until, ohh, on or around April 26.

I'm there. I love time travel stories....

 

[T'Girl]

For instance, Roddenberry intended Data to be the creation of mysterious aliens, but he abandoned that when the script for "Datalore" came along.

Did Roddenberry intend these "mysterious aliens" to basically be the same ones who create Questor and sent his predecessors to Earth?

Except common sense. The only way for him to be alive is to distort probability to a ludicrous degree.

SCOTT .. " So, I tested it on Admiral Archer's prized beagle."
KIRK ..... " Wait, I know that dog. What happened to it? "
SCOTT .. " I'll tell you when it reappears. I don't know. I do feel guilty about that."

Nothing in the previous quote requires Archer to still be alive at the time of Scotty's transporter experiment, or for him to have had a hand in Scotty's exile. Archer in fact could have been dead for many decades. I could make reference to President Kennedy's priced rocking chair, doesn't mean the man didn't die a quarter century before my birth.

Maybe it was Porthos in the experiment, he lived a long life, died, was sent to a taxidermist, and was on display in the Academy lobby. That's where Scotty "borrowed" him from.

 

[Ronald Held]

Would either Scott do such a transporter experiment on a live being?

 

[JB2005]

For the lulz?

Although that does lend credence to the "Taxidermied Porthos" idea. You can imagine the plaque at Starfleet Command "First Beagle to travel at Warp 5"

You know, next to the stuffed Mayweather: "First Helmsman to Travel at Warp 5"

"Hey, I'm not dead..."

"Oh, sorry...it's just that you weren't talking...or having story arcs..."

 

[T'Girl]

It would be difficult to imagine the Prime Scott performing such an experiment on a sapient being, however he did test a transpoerter repair on a dog-like creature in "The Naked Time." Not everyone places animals on the same pedestal as Humans (humanoids). Also the Scott we know best is older and more mature than the Scott in the last movie, a product of different life experiences.

The Scott in the alternate/parallel universe might just be willing to place a living Earth pet dog (which belongs to a living Admiral?) in a untested transporter chamber to prove a point about a personal theory he had been trying to prove.

 

[JB2005]

^ He was probably so confident that it was going to work that he didn't account for the possibility of failure?

 

[JB2005]

^ He was probably so confident that it was going to work that he didn't account for the possibility of failure?

 

[Christopher]

For instance, Roddenberry intended Data to be the creation of mysterious aliens, but he abandoned that when the script for "Datalore" came along.

Did Roddenberry intend these "mysterious aliens" to basically be the same ones who create Questor and sent his predecessors to Earth?

Not literally, since The Questor Tapes is a Universal Studios property and thus an actual crossover would've been impossible. But yes in the sense that Roddenberry recycled the Questor concept as Data, just as he recycled Decker and Ilia from Phase II/TMP as Riker and Troi. (Xon from Phase II got folded into Data as well.)

SCOTT .. " So, I tested it on Admiral Archer's prized beagle."
KIRK ..... " Wait, I know that dog. What happened to it? "
SCOTT .. " I'll tell you when it reappears. I don't know. I do feel guilty about that."

Nothing in the previous quote requires Archer to still be alive at the time of Scotty's transporter experiment, or for him to have had a hand in Scotty's exile. Archer in fact could have been dead for many decades. I could make reference to President Kennedy's priced rocking chair, doesn't mean the man didn't die a quarter century before my birth.

Maybe it was Porthos in the experiment, he lived a long life, died, was sent to a taxidermist, and was on display in the Academy lobby. That's where Scotty "borrowed" him from.

Okay, now that's an interpretation I have no problem with. Although it wouldn't necessarily be Porthos. Beagles typically live 12-15 years, and I doubt Archer would've gone the rest of his life without ever owning another beagle. A descendant of Porthos, perhaps.

 

[JB2005]

^ "Prized Beagle" though, it's possible that after having Porthos he may have got another dog, but not wanted to 'replace' his beloved companion?

 

[F. King Daniel]

You're all forgetting Scotty's line, "...so I tested it with a life-form." The beagle was alive when he beamed it into oblivion, six months earlier.

It would be difficult to imagine the Prime Scott performing such an experiment on a sapient being, however he did test a transpoerter repair on a dog-like creature in "The Naked Time." Not everyone places animals on the same pedestal as Humans (humanoids). Also the Scott we know best is older and more mature than the Scott in the last movie, a product of different life experiences.

The Scott in the alternate/parallel universe might just be willing to place a living Earth pet dog (which belongs to a living Admiral?) in a untested transporter chamber to prove a point about a personal theory he had been trying to prove.

So you say Scotty Prime wouldn't do it, before pointing out that he did do it (in "The Enemy Within", not "The Naked Time")?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Would either Scott do such a transporter experiment on a live being?

In "The Enemy Within", Scotty sends two alien dogs through a transporter to try to reunite them as one being - it is an experiment that fails miserably, but then he repeats it with his human captain!

in a untested transporter chamber to prove a point about a personal theory he had been trying to prove.

Who said it was untested at that point? Maybe they'd been sending bunches of carrots through for several months? Eventually you do have to test it with a living specimen.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Although that does lend credence to the "Taxidermied Porthos" idea. You can imagine the plaque at Starfleet Command "First Beagle to travel at Warp 5"

You know, next to the stuffed Mayweather: "First Helmsman to Travel at Warp 5"

"Hey, I'm not dead..."

"Oh, sorry...it's just that you weren't talking...or having story arcs..."

For what it's worth, I quite like the "stuffed Porthos" idea now it's been proposed...

 

[Deranged Nasat]

You're all forgetting Scotty's line, "...so I tested it with a life-form." The beagle was alive when he beamed it into oblivion, six months earlier.

Bother. So much for that idea, then.

That'll teach me to read the whole page before I post...

 

[F. King Daniel]

As far as I'm concerned, Admiral Archer's prize beagle re-materialized on the Enterprise transporter right after Nimoy's monologue at the end of STXI, as told in ADF's novelization. It was the... erm... currents of transwarp space that... somehow... erm... were excited when... after Kirk and Scotty transwarp beamed to the Enterprise... subspace currents... causing him to re-corporialize... or whatever.

I was hoping for the beagle to get a mention in ADF's sequel-novel-that-almost-was, Refugees. I can totally see Cupcake leading a squad of redshirts through the massive engineering complex, chasing after a stowaway doggie.

 

[Ronald Held]

I had forgotten about "The Enemy Within". In that episode, there was a sense of despiration to save the Captain and save the landing party. jjScott was under no such pressure.