Enterprise seperation

[Timo]

Yet we have seen various views of the E-D arboretum, e.g. in "Imaginary Friend", and there's no blue glow there...

In contrast, there are various (indeed, wildly varying) shapes to the blue-glowing "warp windows" of Starfleet warp engines, sometimes located on the sides of nacelles, sometimes on top of them, sometimes on the aft ends, sometimes at the ends of cowlings on the hull. A square-shaped grouping of smaller squares doesn't sound any weirder than the other variants...

On a couple of occasions, when the Enterprise Dee needed maximum warp speed, in addition the the main warp engines, Riker would call for "Full Impulse,"

I don't think this ever happened.

In "Conspiracy", Riker, frustrated with LaForge's painfully bad jokes, ordered the speed of the ship increased to warp six, apparently so that the trip would be over sooner. LaForge responded "Aye, full impulse". This is a uniquely anomalious use of the terminology, and we might just as well think that it was just one more bad joke from LaForge. Perhaps LaForge in fact thought Riker was joking (he might well have been doing exactly that, as being frustrated with one's underlings is hardly justification for altering the ship's speed or course) and never increased the ship's warp speed?

OTOH, there was at least one instance in TOS where Kirk would order "impulse power" added to main propulsive power (that is, warp power) in a tight spot - namely "Corbomite Maneuver". This suggests that indeed at least the power-producing part of impulse drive could be coupled to the power-producing part of warp drive. To what end, we don't know: Kirk's ship was at sublight speed when he ordered main power used, and then further ordered impulse power added to that, but we don't learn which engines were run with this power. (Soon thereafter, "all engines" are shut down...)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MikeS]

Why would an arboretum on a starship need windows?

 

[Timo]

Because Gertrude/Beauregard gets bored easily?

The plants probably don't need the windows, and in fact suffer from having them. But an important purpose of the gardens might be recreation, entertaining of the crew - and the crew might appreciate a direct view of space simultaneously with a direct view of trees (back to the nature and all that). Although I'm sure their mileage will vary.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Joshonator]

It was a pretty silly thing to add. My friend rolled on the floor laughing when he saw the ship separating with the epic star trek music playing in the background in the first episode . But i think the main reason that it was stupid to be in the show was because it's obvious that after separating the main part of the ship is not going to blow up and kill all the main characters, and the saucer section isn't going to blow up killing all the civilians so whats the point?

 

[Rarewolf]

so whats the point?

To show the situation is dangerous than normal.

To edit your sentence - it's obvious that the ship is not going to blow up and kill all the main characters, it isn't going to blow up killing all the civilians so whats the point (in making the show at all?) Not having the saucer seperation wouldn't really change the nature of the stories.

I do know when it happened again in BOBW I was thinking about time!

 

[USS Excelsior]

The Prometheus handled the separation issue much better, to use the ship to create 3 separate targets and make it less likely that the entire ship would be defeated, and of course separated much faster.

And plus it's odd that a shuttle can travel at Warp 4, but a saucer section cannot. And a runabout can go even faster.

 

[DonIago]

Of course, the shuttle and the runabout both have these things called warp engines, while AFAWK the saucer section does not...

 

[RoJoHen]

Have we ever seen a shuttle's warp core?

 

[DonIago]

We've seen shuttles that clearly have warp nacelles (ramscoops and all) but I don't think we've ever seen the core itself. The same could be said for runabouts... We know they travel at warp because we've seen them accelerate to warp speeds.

 

[RoJoHen]

Well, yes, I know that. Obviously they have warp nacelles, but one would assume they also have warp cores in there somewhere.

 

[Timo]

The two DS9 shuttle types don't have warp nacelles, though. (And "The Sound of Her Voice" might suggest one of them doesn't have a warp core, either - but the shuttles of the Defiant nevertheless crossed interstellar distances on occasion.) The mothership herself is nacelle-free, too. The newer TNG movie shuttles also lack nacelles, as does the liaison vessel spotted in ENT on occasion (the Sarajevo).

Nacelles really are an optional tech even for the Federation, let alone for alien warp-capable cultures. Built-in warp engines seem to be just as practical and capable.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kaziarl]

The two DS9 shuttle types don't have warp nacelles, though. (And "The Sound of Her Voice" might suggest one of them doesn't have a warp core, either - but the shuttles of the Defiant nevertheless crossed interstellar distances on occasion.) The mothership herself is nacelle-free, too. The newer TNG movie shuttles also lack nacelles, as does the liaison vessel spotted in ENT on occasion (the Sarajevo).

Nacelles really are an optional tech even for the Federation, let alone for alien warp-capable cultures. Built-in warp engines seem to be just as practical and capable.

Timo Saloniemi

Do you mean this one?
http://www.cardassiaprimera.com.ar/USS-Dediant-Shuttlecraft.jpg

Cause those look like nacelles on the side, the red glowy bit being the bussard collector, or ramscoop if you prefer. And the blue glowy bit being, well... the blue glowy bit. The Defiant herself has those "wings" that again have the red glowy bit in the front, and the blue glowy bit aft. Just because they aren't sticking out on toothpicks, I'm not sure how they don't qualify as nacelles. Could you elaborate?

To clarify, I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm honestly curious.

 

[Timo]

Well, "nacelle" is a rather specific technical (and non-Trek) term that refers to a casing that is separated from the main body, and supported by some sort of a pylon or trusswork. The engines of a typical passenger jet are in nacelles, and sometimes the term is applied on the casings of non-propulsive aviation hardware such as SLAR antennas or rescue winches or whatnot.

What the Defiant and her shuttles have is cowlings or covers. And if the blue-glowing things on the E-D saucer are warp engines, then they are cowled in, too, but not placed in nacelles.

Two square clusters of square "warp windows" should IMHO fit right in with the menagerie of other "warp window" configurations. We've seen windows to the sides, top or bottom of a nacelle, or wrapping around all the way, or opening only aft, or consisting of numerous small windows. Having windows atop the saucer oughtn't raise too many eyebrows...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kaziarl]

Ok, thanks Timo.

 

[RoJoHen]

Okay, so I apparently didn't know the definition of "nacelle." The word gets thrown around so much that I just assumed it meant something else.

My point was that all of these ships have visible warp engines (bussard collectors and the blue part).

 

[DonIago]

I suspect the Bussard collectors might be optional (though a good idea in emergencies), but yeah, I don't see how the blue windows on the saucer particularly resemble any other demonstrated Federation warp technology. Among other things every time we've seen warp engines they're "wing sections", while the saucer windows are embedded. I'd think any subspace field they generated would have an extremely "interesting" geometry.

 

[USS Excelsior]

And to make things more complicated a 2 meter Class 8 Probe that transported K'Ehleyr can travel at Warp 9, and yet the saucer section cannot!

 

[DonIago]

Since when does warp ability have anything to do with size? The Phoenix could travel at warp...

 

[T'Girl]

Well, "nacelle" is a rather specific technical

What encloses the Defiant's warp engines might be better described as "sponsons."

I suspect the Bussard collectors might be optional

While the Phoenix had glowly domes on her warp nacelles, I can't think of a reasonable reason for such a short range craft to have or need bussard collectors

And to make things more complicated a 2 meter Class 8 Probe that transported K'Ehleyr can travel at Warp 9, and yet the saucer section cannot!

Which is why it's hard to imagine the saucer not having at least a (relatively) small warp drive. I'm not saying a engine the size of the combined main nacelles, but just enough to cook along at warp three or so. And if it doesn't, why doesn't it?

What reason can there possible be to exclude one from the design?

 

[DonIago]

If we assume that the nacelles need to be vaguely proportional to the amount of ship they are enabling to travel at warp, which seems likely based on pretty much every other ship design we've seen, then I suspect one reason why it doesn't is because there's just no place nacelles could be put on the saucer without possibly disrupting the combined ship's ability to generate a warp field.

Also, frankly the saucer with its own nacelles would just be fugly.