Enterprise seperation

[Timo]

I'd say the fact that the saucer wasn't able to escape Veridiian III in "Generations" proves it well enough.

That bit of ST:GEN proves the saucer can't move at impulse, either...

Or then the only thing it proves is that big warp cores exploding next to you will generally result in a substandard performance, or sublight performance if you will.

If ship separation had been written to more episodes, it would probably have been dramatically useful to give the saucer relatively good FTL capabilities. That way, the heroes could have two starship adventures with one starship at the same time, without the need to write one of those adventures with atypical and cumbersome limitations...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[HGN2001]

Saucer separation was mentioned in "Hollow Pursuits" but they never got around to implementing it as the problem was solved.

Harry

 

[Saquist]

Also they need a reason to separate the saucer section which they often didn't they wouldn't do it for anything unless it was absolutely necessary

That's the real reason and I bet they converted that battle bridge to something else eventually.

 

[Timo]

The writers sort of preempted themselves in "Heart of Glory", where Riker and Picard debate the merits of separating before going to investigate an apparent battle zone. Picard decides against separation, arguing they don't know enough yet to establish the risks. If that's his and Starfleet's attitude, then the saucer will never be preemptively separated - and separation in the middle of a firefight would generally be foolish even if the saucer had moderate warp capabilities (which two of the three actual separation episodes suggest is the case).

Where does that leave Starfleet, Picard and us? With saucer separation as an emergency bailout option, only to be used in a series finale or a reset button episode. Or perhaps with saucer separation used for a diversion, as seen in "BoBW". Or then with the saucer left behind to perform some special mission; for some reason, the writers wrote themselves out of the "Heart of Glory" corner in the first two ways mentioned above, but never considered the third. Still, it always was writing out of a corner, because there was little logical reason to separate if one thought the way Picard did.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Garak007]

The writers sort of preempted themselves in "Heart of Glory", where Riker and Picard debate the merits of separating before going to investigate an apparent battle zone. Picard decides against separation, arguing they don't know enough yet to establish the risks. If that's his and Starfleet's attitude, then the saucer will never be preemptively separated - and separation in the middle of a firefight would generally be foolish even if the saucer had moderate warp capabilities (which two of the three actual separation episodes suggest is the case).

Where does that leave Starfleet, Picard and us? With saucer separation as an emergency bailout option, only to be used in a series finale or a reset button episode. Or perhaps with saucer separation used for a diversion, as seen in "BoBW". Or then with the saucer left behind to perform some special mission; for some reason, the writers wrote themselves out of the "Heart of Glory" corner in the first two ways mentioned above, but never considered the third. Still, it always was writing out of a corner, because there was little logical reason to separate if one thought the way Picard did.

Timo Saloniemi

That could explain why I could not tell if Picard was pissed off with Geordi for using separation or pleased when he wanted his ship back to where he left it so he left Geordi with the Conn until they returned.

 

[DeepSpaceWine]

[note: if this shows up strange, sorry. For some reason quotation marks, spacing between paragraphs, amphersands are not showing up properly. Not sure why] I always find the topic of saucer separation interesting because of "Final Mission";. I always thought Riker should've been court-martialed over his handling of command in that episode. Faced with a dilemma, to search for the crashed shuttle with Picard & Wesley on the desert moon or save a nearby planet from a barge emitting large quantities of deadly radiation, he opts to leave the captain and use the ship to tow the barge away from the planet, at the peril of everyone onboard, as the episode depicts, with the whole crew & personnel coming very close to getting lethal doses of radiation. And at no point did he ever consider saucer separation. All the families on the saucer could go and search for Picard while the stardrive section, which would have the engines and tractor beam for towing could tow the garbage barge and put only some of the crew at risk. How many lives did Riker recklessly endanger there? People bash VOY for bad writing that just makes you bang your head against a wall (Equinox Part II, Threshold, etc), but there are some equally bad instances of writing in the other series too (besides "brain and brain! what is brain?&quot. Riker's whole side of the drama was entirely unnecessary/forced (though it seems thr writers totally forgot about saucer separation despite using it half a season ago).

 

[Basill]

How many other episodes was separation mentioned as a possibility but eventually dismissed? It was suggested in The Child as a means of escaping the runaway contagion in stasis, and I know others here have noted Hollow Pursuits and Heart of Glory but I can't think of any others offhand.

 

[sevenstars]

Since the ability to separate was presented as a new, very cool feature of the TNG Enterprise, and then it was hardly ever used again... I always got the feeling that, well, it just didn't turn out to be as cool as it was meant to be. There was something aesthetically unpleasing about it, even beyond the cumbersome decision-making and separation process: that truncated battle bridge, that looked like it had been beheaded, and the saucer sitting there like a beached whale...

Somehow it made the ship lose its identity.

 

[Timo]

On "Final Mission", the abandoning of landing parties is standard Starfleet procedure, unless immediate emergency is established. Picard and pals should have been fine in a "normal" shuttle crash; Riker couldn't know Dirgo hadn't stocked on essential survival gear and supplies. Dedicating half a starship to seaching for the castaways would be atypical, and probably an unacceptable waste of resources.

The aspect of recklessly endangering people in the saucer during the towing maneuver would already be covered by the "Heart of Glory" clause: the saucer is never separated preemptively, and separation during the heat of action isn't feasible. Note that the risks were relatively small there: UFP medicine can deal with the radiation poisoning easily enough.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MikeS]

Saucer separation was mentioned in "Hollow Pursuits" but they never got around to implementing it as the problem was solved.

Harry

How many other episodes was separation mentioned as a possibility but eventually dismissed? It was suggested in The Child as a means of escaping the runaway contagion in stasis, and I know others here have noted Hollow Pursuits and Heart of Glory but I can't think of any others offhand.

In Disaster. When the bridge crew learn that a warp core breach is a possibility, Ro provides seperation as an option. Troi dismisses it as she is unwilling to sacrifice the few to save the many, in twisted Vulcan logic.

 

[SchwEnt]

How many other episodes was separation mentioned as a possibility but eventually dismissed? It was suggested in The Child as a means of escaping the runaway contagion in stasis, and I know others here have noted Hollow Pursuits and Heart of Glory but I can't think of any others offhand.

Also "Brothers".
To release Data's control of the Enterprise, Picard suggests saucer sep at warp (like EaF). When the ship separates, Data will be left in the saucer while Picard and the rest control the stardrive section.
But before Picard can do it, Data locks out Picard's command functions.

 

[Timo]

...And that appears to be all. The idea of using the saucer as a detached base of operations is never brought up, alas. But some of the ideas that do see the light of day are pretty interesting, such as the defeating of Data by giving him half a starship.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Rarewolf]

Wasn't in mentioned in The High Ground as well? When the bomb was on the warp core.

 

[Alrik]

And at no point did he ever consider saucer separation. All the families on the saucer could go and search for Picard while the stardrive section, which would have the engines and tractor beam for towing could tow the garbage barge and put only some of the crew at risk.

Just how was the saucer supposed to get back to the Pentarus system once separated? It would have taken forever to get there at impulse. A 'whole' Enterprise left the Gamelan system at Warp 9 to get back to the Pentarus system as quickly as they could. That would suggest that there was some distance between the Gamelan and Pentarus systems.

Now before the argument is made that the saucer section is capable of FTL, I would like to know where, on screen or off, that it is suggested. EaF suggests that the saucer can maintain Warp while separating, but nothing to indicate that it can maintain Warp. That appears to be backed up by the fact that the stardrive was able to double back at high Warp, do its business with Q, yet it reached Farpoint well before the saucer section.

Now factor in Generations. If the saucer was Warp capable, wouldn't they have immediately gone to it as soon as they cleared the stardrive, before the core blew? Finally, even though it is not 'canon' because it didn't happen on screen, the TNG Tech Manual by Stiernbach and Okuda states that the saucer is able to maintain Warp during separation, but will 'coast out' soon after and that it is not capable of Warp by itself.

 

[DonIago]

I'd cut Generations some slack since the ship was heavily damaged at the time, but as I said a few posts back, I don't recall any evidence to suggest that the saucer has FTL capability.

 

[Timo]

"Encounter at Farpoint" is quite clear on the saucer having warp drive. The separation takes place after the joint ship has been flying away from Deneb IV at extreme warp for several minutes at the very least. After this separation, the stardrive section has a little adventure and then warps to Deneb IV. At arrival, Riker immediately boards the stardrive section and is told that the saucer will arrive in 51 minutes.

So the saucer covered in just a single additional hour the significant distance from the separation point to Deneb IV. We can claim that the stardrive section puttered about at impulse from separation to Deneb IV to even the odds, although there's no rational basis for such a thing. But that still doesn't negate the fact that the saucer covered the distance corresponding to several minutes at warp 9.6 or better in what sounds like just one hour. That calls for warp drive.

Now, "EaF" only establishes that the saucer can maintain relatively high warp for several hours. It doesn't establish that the saucer would be able to accelerate to warp on her own. But enter "Arsenal of Freedom". Here, LaForge sends the saucer on an interstellar journey without giving her an initial warp-speed push: the separation happens at impulse speeds. This would be a criminal offense if only a warp-speed push would enable the saucer to spend time at warp, and LaForge should be shot at dawn if a warp-speed push enabled the saucer to stay at warp indefinitely, or at least for several days. What idiot would change a trip to the safety of a starbase from three days to three years in length?

However, if the saucer can accelerate to warp on her own, then no initial push is needed and LaForge made a sound decision.

And that's all the evidence we have. There is no episode or movie where the heroes or villains or sidekicks or comic relief would declare that the saucer is incapable of warp. There is just "Brothers" where our heroes desperately struggle to get Data out of warp, and to this end suggest cutting him loose in the saucer. Doesn' mean the saucer would automatically drop to impulse in two minutes in all such cases - merely means that the saucer will drop out of warp in two minutes when our heroes want it to.

As for ST:GEN, there was no time for the saucer to jump to warp. Even engaging the impulse engines was said to require first "clearing" the stardrive section - something that happened dozens of seconds and hundreds of meters after the actual opening of the latches. For all we know, activating the warp engines of the saucer takes special preparation, since those engines are dormant in the normal case, possibly for years at a stretch.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DonIago]

Unfortunately to me this is more evidence of poorly thought-out writing and logistics than it is evidence that the saucer can maintain warp (particularly high warp) for a significant amount of time.

 

[BillJ]

No warp drive (pretty sure we only saw one) and no warp nacelles would probably mean that the saucer was unable of independently gaining warp velocity. Even if separated the saucer should be able to maintain warp while still in the warp field of the stardrive section.

But how does it maintain a warp field once it leaves the proximity of the stardrive section? Or is it that once an object enters subspace it has to apply some type of force to exit subspace?

"An object in subspace tends to stay in subspace..."

 

[Satyrquaze]

How many other episodes was separation mentioned as a possibility but eventually dismissed? It was suggested in The Child as a means of escaping the runaway contagion in stasis, and I know others here have noted Hollow Pursuits and Heart of Glory but I can't think of any others offhand.

Also "Brothers".
To release Data's control of the Enterprise, Picard suggests saucer sep at warp (like EaF). When the ship separates, Data will be left in the saucer while Picard and the rest control the stardrive section.
But before Picard can do it, Data locks out Picard's command functions.

I believe the plan was because the ship was travelling at high-warp to Soong's planet, seperating the ship would cause the Saucer Section to drop out of warp as it has no warp capabilities of it's own. Picard says this pretty plainly.

 

[Timo]

But not so plainly that he would contradict "EaF" where the saucer does not drop out of warp.

Warp nacelles are not necessary for warp drive. The Defiant has none. Photon torpedoes have none. Most of the probes we have seen have none. Most alien starships have none. And the saucer does have things that glow "warp blue"...

Timo Saloniemi