Enterprise question

[CaptainHawk1]

The first such ship was the Constitution-class USS Enterprise, NCC-1701 -- Kirk's ship -- launched in 2245.

Sorry to bring this up, but the dedication plaque states the "E" is Starship Class. This is kinda like the green/gold debate, but not as intense.

The plaque is irrelevant. The 1701 is Constitution class, everyone knows that. Picard even said so in "Relics" when he entered the holodeck re-creation of its bridge.

The 1701 was a Starship *type*, but Constitution *class*.

Agreed, the classification of the vessel is a Starship as opposed to a freighter, frigate, etc. The class of the Starship is indeed Constitution and has been said on several occasions on-screen.

You're incorrect on 2 counts. First, The Defiant (NX-74205) was a Defiant Class and not an NX Class.

I thought that's what Nemesis said?

With the minor modification that he called all the NX-registered prototypes in Starfleet history "NX class".

And this is where I was making the distinction because other than ENT, there is no NX class. I think it's fair to say that the writers did a little backwards engineering in ENT by making it NX class as it was a prototype/experimental ship. This suggests that the the experimenatal/prototype vessels in the future with the NX registry are an homage to the original NX Class, although not in the NX Class class.

Which IMHO is a cool idea for terminology: Archer's ship would have been of Enterprise class for the same reason the Defiant was of Defiant class, but Starfleet would also be in the habit of referring to its experimental or prototype ships in each class as "NX class" or "NX category" or "NX rate" or something like that.

Timo Saloniemi

This idea does seem to make logical sense but there's really nothing to indicate that at all in Trek. From what we've seen (again, backwards engineered) The NX was a class, and prototype experimental vessels in the 23rd and 24th century have an NX registry number, that's really it.

-Shawn

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The NX was a class, and prototype experimental vessels in the 23rd and 24th century have an NX registry number, that's really it.

Yep. For the most part, ships in the ENT era used letters, not names, for their class. For example: NX-class starships; DY, Y and J-class freighters; etc. And the concept of "NX class" appeared nowhere else but in ENT.

The fact that later on, Starfleet used NX for the first ship of any class, is a coincidence. Nothing more.

(That being said: I think they *should* have used an actual name for the NX-01's class. Or at the very least, given it a registry prefix, like U.E.S. )

 

[Green Shirt]

The first such ship was the Constitution-class USS Enterprise, NCC-1701 -- Kirk's ship -- launched in 2245.

Sorry to bring this up, but the dedication plaque states the "E" is Starship Class. This is kinda like the green/gold debate, but not as intense.

The plaque is irrelevant. The 1701 is Constitution class, everyone knows that. Picard even said so in "Relics" when he entered the holodeck re-creation of its bridge.

The 1701 was a Starship *type*, but Constitution *class*.

Oh, so what's seen on screen is irrelevant?

What a relief, the shirts ARE green, so to hell with gold color that shows up on screen.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Sorry to bring this up, but the dedication plaque states the "E" is Starship Class. This is kinda like the green/gold debate, but not as intense.

The plaque is irrelevant. The 1701 is Constitution class, everyone knows that. Picard even said so in "Relics" when he entered the holodeck re-creation of its bridge.

The 1701 was a Starship *type*, but Constitution *class*.

Oh, so what's seen on screen is irrelevant?

When it obviously makes no sense, yes.

 

[Green Shirt]

When it obviously makes no sense, yes.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Personal attacks are the last resort of those who can't discuss a matter logically.


Anyway --- moving on to discuss issues with those who aren't in love with their imagined superiority.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

When it obviously makes no sense, yes.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Personal attacks are the last resort of those who can't discuss a matter logically.


Anyway --- moving on to discuss issues with those who aren't in love with their imagined superiority.

I meant the concept of "Starship Class", as shown on the plaque, makes no sense. Because, taken literally, then you would have to have a ship named USS Starship.

It seems obvious - to me, anyway - that they should have said Starship TYPE. Because the Enterprise certainly is that.

And we've seen the dedication plaque of the Defiant (the TOS version - NCC-1764) - a ship which is identical in appearance and class to the Enterprise, and whose plaque DID say Constitution class.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Did ever the camera ever get close enough to the plaque for it to be readable on screen

 

[captcalhoun]

more to the point, the Defiant is called an 'Escort' class in "The Search", that's a type not a class...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Did ever the camera ever get close enough to the plaque for it to be readable on screen

I don't think so.

 

[Timo]

Just as an aside, "class" has been used in Star Trek many a time in a meaning other than "symbolic proper name of vessel family". There are "Class X" probes where X is a number and the expression describes the properties of the probe. There are "Class 2" shuttlecraft which include the VOY "speedboat" shuttles, even though we have every reason to suspect they are also identified by "Type".

Certainly Kirk's starship could have been "Class One Explorer" (as opposed to Class Two Explorers or Class One Tenders) or "Starship Class" (as opposed to Frigate Class or Corvette Class) in addition to being Constitution class.

And certainly Archer's starship could have been "NX Class" (perhaps with the X denoting the eXploration role, rather than the eXperimental design) in addition to being Enterprise class.

Also, let's remember that the expression "NX Class" is only heard about thrice in all of ENT. Two times out of those three, it could refer to a broader category of ships. Say, it could include the Enterprise class NX vessels and the Neptune class NX vessels, which are exploration ships, but excludes the Triton class NC vessels which are combat ships and the Sarajevo class NO vessels which are liaison and observation ships.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ "Triton class"?

As for 'NC' and 'NO' vessels, we've never seen that. Enterprise is the only ship we ever saw up close enough to discern its registry number.

 

[Timo]

I'd say we got close enough to all the other ships to discern the fact that they had no registry numbers. Painted on their hulls, that is.

Obviously, that was something new for NX-01. Perhaps a publicity stunt of some sort?

But odds are, all the other ships had registries, too, even though they weren't painted on. And it's by no means contrary to evidence if we assume that NX denoted the ship type (the same way CVN today would denote nuclear carrier), and that there were other types besides NX in use, and other classes besides Enterprise class that would have been of NX type. Or, if Enterprise was the first-ever NX class, that UESF would have had several classes for the NC role, or the NO role, or the NT role, or whatever.

It would make sense to think of the Enterprise class as the first NX classs in UESF service, especially if we assume that X means exploration, since Starfleet probably had done little or no exploration prior to the show. What would there have been to explore when the ships couldn't go beyond the range of what was already described in the Vulcan records? Hence, any reference to "NX class" in the early 2150s would be a valid alternate expression for Enterprise class, just like "AEGIS class" was a perfectly valid synonym for Ticonderoga class back when Tico was the only class equipped with AEGIS.

(As for Triton class, contrary to appearances, I didn't make it up of whole cloth. There is mention of that class in ENT "Minefield", although it's up to us to decide whether "Triton class spatial torpedo" refers to the spatial torpedoes of the Triton class of starships, or the Triton class of torpedoes...

OTOH, I don't really want to believe in Sarajevo class. I hate it when starship classes are named after the first starship of that class seen onscreen - cf. the FASA "Reliant class". So preferably, ships of that class might be named after Winter Olympics sites or something... Sapporo class?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There is mention of that class in ENT "Minefield", although it's up to us to decide whether "Triton class spatial torpedo" refers to the spatial torpedoes of the Triton class of starships, or the Triton class of torpedoes...

I think it was the torpedo.

 

[Unicron]

^ Which is why NX-01 is left out of the Federation system and why the Enterprise-D is really not the NCC-01-E.

There was also no Federation Starship Enterprise (in canon) between the time the Federation was founded and the launch of Kirk's Enterprise.

Except that other non-Federation ships have been included in the chronology, like the aircraft carrier Enterprise, the shuttle orbiter and the ringship which only seems to have gotten a proper mention in TMP. So merely having existed before the founding of the UFP is not enough for the NX-01 to be omitted, and it makes no sense anyway. What's important is the name, not the era in which the ship existed.

The producers of ENT would have been better off choosing a different name.

 

[Anthony Sabre]

I thought NX stood for Naval Experimental?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I thought NX stood for Naval Experimental?

Not in ENT's time frame, no. Then, NX was just a class name.

 

[Timo]

Or then it meant "New Explorer". That is, she would have been a New Explorer class vessel of the Enterprise class.

Except that other non-Federation ships have been included in the chronology, like the aircraft carrier Enterprise, the shuttle orbiter and the ringship which only seems to have gotten a proper mention in TMP. So merely having existed before the founding of the UFP is not enough for the NX-01 to be omitted, and it makes no sense anyway. What's important is the name, not the era in which the ship existed.

However, the presence of all those other ships of the name only accentuates the fact that all of them can never be displayed. There must have been dozens if not hundreds of vessels and vehicles by that name, and the choice of, say, four important ones is always at random, typically omitting several very significant historical players.

Say, the display in ST:TMP did not show the nuclear aircraft carrier, even though all later Trek seems to think that this carrier was very important and must always be portrayed. In turn, ST:TMP was the only one to show the conventional WWII carrier, which was kingpin to the USN victory over the IJN in that war; all later displays completely omit this vessel. Different displays also show different sailing ships.

We might assume that the old UESF operated several spacecraft named Enterprise, including Archer's vessel and the ringship plus possibly several others (spaceships need not have been particularly long-lived back then). Different displays would then pick and choose between which of these vessels to include and which to omit. And most displays could barely reserve two slots for pre-UFP vessels, one of which would go for a waterborne vessel - so the inclusion of Archer's ship, no matter how famous, would be far from said.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Unicron]

I don't know that there would necessarily have been hundreds of vehicles named Enterprise, but you do bring up a good point. And the aircraft carrier was featured regularly on TNG as part of the chronology.

I just think the name was a can of worms that need never have been opened by the production staff.

 

[Sector 7]

Theeeee.... logic of the canon goes round and round,
Round and round,
Round and round;
Theeee.... logic of the canon goes round and round,
'Til it all falls down...
--- Chicken first, egg first... my head hurts!
But to the OP's inquiry... canon is the fodder for the "mass debaters" (say it real fast & it makes more sense). Star Trek's canon is often changed by it's own TV series. So don't get too caught up in canon arguments. They are often counter-productive and interfere with enjoyment of an otherwise good television show.
What is on screen does INDEED often ignore canon for the sake of a good story (or in some series... lousy stories). So it is best not to take it too personal. Personally, I find canon arguments to be like "temporal paradoxes" they give me a headache!

 

[3D Master]

The NCC-1701 is the first starship to bear the name Enterprise. There are no other starships before it with that name, period. It started its life as a "starship-class", indeed, as the first ship the Federation launched that was considered big and powerful enough to be considered a genuine "starship" was given that class designation.

However, time passed, and more ship-classes were launched that were powerful enough to be considered starships as well, and the designation "starship-class" got confusing. Do you mean any ship with an high enough class to be a starship, or do you literally mean ships of the "Starship-class"? Hence, it was renamed to the name of the first ship of its class, and henceforth was known as the Constitution-class.

There is no such thing as an NX-01 starship Enterprise. There may have been a spaceship designated as such, and was most likely the ring-ship seen in a picture on Star Trek - The Motion Picture.