The Odyssey did a great job, fighting without shields against an unknown enemy who ended it with a kamikaze run.
I don't think that any other Starfleet ship would do it better
Enterprise-D destruction
- Thread starter Carpathia86
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The Odyssey did a great job, fighting without shields against an unknown enemy who ended it with a kamikaze run.
I don't think that any other Starfleet ship would do it better
Of course, when the producers on DS9 felt they can break the unwritten rule whenever it suited them. It must've been brilliant to learn of all of the races of villains Star Trek officers has ever encountered, never thought of firing at the propulsion units, and then ramming ships at these Starships. It's like the conceit of superheroes wearing capes, we know in the real world its a detriment for anyone to wear such a thing if they tried to fight or save someone, but in the world of the character it's safe. Since TNG some of these boneheaded producers had been toying with this idea over and over and over again because in their minds the neck portion and the propulsion units are vulnerable for combat, but failing to understand if they're asking those kinds of questions than maybe they should find another television show to work on other than Star Trek.
Galaxy Class ships are state of the art and can sustain incredible stresses in order to travel at great lengths of the Galaxy and whatever is out there they happen to encounter. Also, from what I'd seen on TNG the Galaxy Class can move pretty fast, and it still can move quickly with one operational propulsion unit. It should've taken more than what the Jem Hadar had done to destroy that ship. But like what was done on TNG with Worf, he had to get his ass kicked by a woman or someone to get street cred they were tough.
Galaxy Class ships are state of the art and can sustain incredible stresses in order to travel at great lengths of the Galaxy and whatever is out there they happen to encounter. Also, from what I'd seen on TNG the Galaxy Class can move pretty fast, and it still can move quickly with one operational propulsion unit. It should've taken more than what the Jem Hadar had done to destroy that ship. But like what was done on TNG with Worf, he had to get his ass kicked by a woman or someone to get street cred they were tough.
I dunno, recall the TNG episode “Cause and Effect” the E-D’s nacelle gets clipped by the USS Bozeman and it leads to the warp core breach/destruction. That seems pretty fragile to me.
The Odyssey took a helluva lot more damage than that before the kamikaze run. And the damage it took from that was more than enough to cause it to be destroyed.
Paul755, it doesn't make any sense according to the concept of deep space travel. There are tons of speeding stuff out there which could collide into a starship and ship to ship collisions may happen by accident, and I would think since these units are exposed it would be tougher than vulnerable.
My favorite shot from "The Jem'hadar"...well, at least one of them...is when Odyssey turns to retreat. It's like a showcase of all of the Galaxy classes best and worst traits in a nutshell. Massive ship, built to withstand punishment, but not built for what it was facing.
What if this was the Enterprise, do you believe she would've shared the same fate or Picard and crew would've found a way to beat the Jem'Hadar?
I don't personally have a reason to believe Picard would have done any better. Keogh evacuated civilians beforehand, tried to adapt to the Jem'hadar as best he could, and knew when it was time to get out of there.
I think the only thing that might have made a difference would have been if the ship had saucer-separated beforehand so there were two vessels instead of one to attack with, but I'm not saying that would have yielded better results.
Either way the Jem'hadar from the outset clearly intended to destroy the Odyssey to the point that they would kamikaze to ensure its destruction if necessary.
Besides, for better or worse, GEN showed us just how well the E-D crew does when their enemy can fire through shields.
I think the only thing that might have made a difference would have been if the ship had saucer-separated beforehand so there were two vessels instead of one to attack with, but I'm not saying that would have yielded better results.
Either way the Jem'hadar from the outset clearly intended to destroy the Odyssey to the point that they would kamikaze to ensure its destruction if necessary.
Besides, for better or worse, GEN showed us just how well the E-D crew does when their enemy can fire through shields.
Everyone on the ENT-D was taking stupid pills during GEN.
No rotation of the shield modulations, like they did frequently on the show. Nothing more than one phaser attack, when the ENT-D has 12 different arrays. Only one torpedo fired, when Riker asked for a spread.
Start video at 7:10 for info about the big D.
I've always said, the fight between the D and that 20 year old BOP, was like putting Ivan Drago against Warwick Davis. It's so lopsided, that the D didn't need to cheat (iconic pulse to raise the cloak and drop the shields) or struggle to win. And yet, writer's nerf made it happen.
No rotation of the shield modulations, like they did frequently on the show. Nothing more than one phaser attack, when the ENT-D has 12 different arrays. Only one torpedo fired, when Riker asked for a spread.
Start video at 7:10 for info about the big D.
I've always said, the fight between the D and that 20 year old BOP, was like putting Ivan Drago against Warwick Davis. It's so lopsided, that the D didn't need to cheat (iconic pulse to raise the cloak and drop the shields) or struggle to win. And yet, writer's nerf made it happen.
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The showrunners and producers never failed to inject commands, formulations and strategies employed by the crew during combat or other emergencies.
The crew during GEN just didn't perform to their ability during the battle, because the ship had to die.
TPTB could've easily rectified the situation by either adding more than 1 Duras ship. Drop the 20 year old handicap. Have the ENT-D destroyed in a dog fight like Yesterday's Enterprise. Or have the ship KO'ed by crossfire by other races pursuing Soran. The Romulans and the Breen. Lastly, have the Nexus itself destroy the D in space. Separate the saucer as a way to outrun the cascading energy. Leading to a crash landing.
The crew during GEN just didn't perform to their ability during the battle, because the ship had to die.
TPTB could've easily rectified the situation by either adding more than 1 Duras ship. Drop the 20 year old handicap. Have the ENT-D destroyed in a dog fight like Yesterday's Enterprise. Or have the ship KO'ed by crossfire by other races pursuing Soran. The Romulans and the Breen. Lastly, have the Nexus itself destroy the D in space. Separate the saucer as a way to outrun the cascading energy. Leading to a crash landing.
To what end? The Duras' Sisters basically had a live-feed from engineering. They would have seen the new modulation. Thanks to Geordi (glancing at the msds during the battle) they propably knew immediately, what systems failed first and then they just kept hammering those.
That's giving the writers too much credit for something they likely weren't thinking about. It wasn't in the movie. So it didnt happen. But on the weekly shows TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT, Moore, Braga and Berman never forgot to mention rotating shield modulation.
Trying to retroactively insert non-existent shield modulation and or the Duras sister's being smart and clever enough to target the ENT-D's failing systems; is propping up bad writing. TPTB blew it and they know it. Just like the blew it with Kirk's death.
I seem to recall during one of the the Borg battles or maybe it was another ship, but the ENT-D can rotate their shield and phaser frequencies randomly, so their opponent couldn't adapt or pierce them.
Even if Nimoy had been approached earlier during the writing process, I don't think it would have worked out. Nimoy was very much of the opinion that the director was the person responsible for shaping the story and development of a film, whereas Berman's approach seemed more based around writing out the screenplay in full beforehand, then just hiring whichever director would get it up on screen with minimal fuss (except for Nemesis, where Baird was a studio-manded hire).
Not absolutely necessary but pretty necessary and very beneficial. It was necessary to give the film the sense that it was significant and the end of something (rather than purely just Episode 184-But with a Super-Special Guest Star) and it's a pretty nice touch that the meeting of the generations ends with both the original captain dying and the next generation crew losing and their ship being destroyed but them confident they'll get a new one soon.
It makes sense that the movie ship should look pretty different from the television show ship, especially with the movies also having new uniforms. And I think FC, impressively, did get the viewer involved in the fate of a brand-new ship.
I think most fans think that, at least aside from FC, they didn't differentiate enough.
That may have been a lot better, have more intensity and have the villains be cooler by having them go down taking others with them (kind of happened in TWoK but could easily have felt different rather than retread).
I thought it was, though obvious, charming to go from 23rd century ship to 24th century characters roleplaying on a 19th century seaship, it would have been blander to go clearly and directly to just another crew in their normal roles in a later starship (and yeah, also directly from one big action-effects-jeopardy scene into another).
I dunno. I love the scene, but...it’s a woolly way of introducing the tng crew to a movie going audience.
Interesting thing about the Enterprise E was that it was never meant to be the Enterprise. The Sovereign Class was designed to be a more of a battle cruiser due to the heightened threats of the Borg and Dominion. That’s why it doesn’t really match the properties of the other Enterprises which are more all round heavy cruisers.
That’s reaching into the bowels of beta canon. The ship is a Connie getting burst by a Galaxy with its saucer sideways and it’s pylons inverted. It’s an eighties enterprise mash up.
Yeah, I agree. They had incompatible ways of working. Nimoy was used to being the instigator on his projects, and Berman was used to running the show on TNG for many years by that point. I'd guess that he was interested in getting Nimoy more for the publicity cache and the marquee value than for what he'd actually bring to it.
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