Enterprise and the new Star Trek movie (SPOILERS)

[lceb]

There are threads talking about the new movie in the other shows' forums so maybe we need a place here too. If it is in any way inappropriate, please admin, erase it.
How do you people like the movie? Is Enterprise now the only de facto canon show and does that have any special meaning for the fans? Is it possible that more people will warm to the show or will it go the other way around? Was the movie "better" than Enterprise? And where will our favorite (and very old) Vulcan be when her planet goes boom?

 

[clint g]

The movie certainly had a more "epic" feel than Enterprise ever had. To be fair though, this is to be expected since Ent was a TV show with a fraction of the budget.

 

[Mach5]

There are threads talking about the new movie in the other shows' forums so maybe we need a place here too. If it is in any way inappropriate, please admin, erase it.
How do you people like the movie? Is Enterprise now the only de facto canon show and does that have any special meaning for the fans? Is it possible that more people will warm to the show or will it go the other way around? Was the movie "better" than Enterprise? And where will our favorite (and very old) Vulcan be when her planet goes boom?

This movie, like all the other Star Trek movies, (and other sci-fi movies in general) was flawed. But, if "Revenge of the Sith" was a 'flawed masterpiece' (as someone at IMDB once called it), then this movie is a masterpiece of its own kind, and a lot more so.

Not only is it more entertaining than any other sci-fi movie since "Independence Day" ("The Matrix" included), but it is also blessed with a superb cast and best visuals ever seen on screen (though 'lens flare' effect did annoy me).

Chris Pine is the best thing that happened to Star Trek since Avery Brooks and Connor Trinneer. He may be young, he may sport that boyish not-a-man-yet appearance, but his charisma is undeniable. As someone said, he may not look like Shatner, he may not sound like Shatner, but he is 100% James T. Kirk. The charm is there, as is the sense of humor, self confidence, arrogance and energy. He is a frakking force of nature, and watching him do his thing was pure delight.

Quinto, Urban, Pegg and Greenwood were fantastic. Saldana (a certified eye-candy), Cho and Yeltchin were up to the task but Eric Bana's Nero was a disappointment. He could have been an amazing uber-villain had the writers decided to explore his background, but they chose to focus the movie on the good guys. Pitty, a waste of an excellent actor.

- As for "Star Trek" in relation to Enterprise...

You can't really compare a TV show to a big budget movie. But you can compare actors and characters. ENT's cast did an awesome job, considering the material they were given, and I'm sure that they would have done wonders with Orci's and Kurtzman's stuff. These guys can write dialogue (make it witty and fun), and they can write characters (give them soul). They can also write Vulcans. Sarek and Spock felt genuine and authentic, however those boys that bullied Spock seemed malicious. But then, they're only kids that have barely scratched into logic, let alone mastered it.

I'm pretty sure that Orci/Kurtzman's Archer would have been a true badass instead of an "alleged hero" that ENT's writers made him. I'm also pretty sure that O/K would have made something more out of Travis and Hoshi, and that they would've nailed Malcolm Reed and Phlox.

T'Pol and Tucker would have also benefited from Orci/Kurtzman's style of writing. Just look at Spock and Uhura. They only had couple of scenes together, but they're already sold as a couple (I wonder if there are any Spock/Uhura shippers out there already). I doubt that O&K would have ever introduced ridiculous plot devices like neuro-pressure and trellium-D. They would have found more romantic and interesting means of utilizing the chemistry that Trinneer and Blalock had, I'm certain of that.

Finally, the big question. What happened to 170 year old T'Pol after the destrucion of Vulcan? I bet she wasn't even there. She was probably on Earth with humans, even though every human she cared about had probably died by 2258.

 

[commodore64]

Overall, I liked it. It's certainly not the Star Trek I saw in syndication, including the take on the characters. Some characters I liked a lot less, some I liked a lot more.

And it seems to be a reboot in an interesting way -- an AU, which means to me that they have free range on canon. I kinda like that. I think there were a lot of things that were difficult to align.

Some things I didn't like:
* The plot - an angry mining capt. goes back in time?
* Mr. Spock - the guy kissed an officer in the Transporter Room; is he really Vulcan? The thing I liked about the other Spock was that he was always logical with an undercurrent of emotion rather than showing emotion
* Amanda Gray -- not the Amanda of TOS, I thought Ryder was silly
* Sarek -- not Mark Leonard. I love Ben Cross, but he didn't pull off what I think is a difficult balance -- warmth and yet non-emotion

Things I liked:
* Dr. McCoy -- Karl Urban was really fantastic
* The explanation of why Chekov does everything in TOS and the silly Wictor, Wictor
* Flashy, bright colors
* Special FX and graphics
* Sounds -- the new phaser sound is cool
* That it relaunched the franchise in a new and exciting way

 

[JiNX-01]

​

I thought the opening scene was absolutely amazing. The musical score -- combined with the poignancy of George and Winona Kirk so far apart yet sharing the moment of their son's birth -- as George sacrifices himself ... I had tears streaming down my face through the whole thing. It was magnificent!

I love that there was an ENT reference, and think it was kind of appropriate considering ENT, like TOS, was cancelled after such a short run but has been picking up in popularity and appreciation ever since. ​

I think the actors did a great job taking over roles of such iconic characters and the actors who played them. Pine, Quinto and Urban were especially fantastic in keeping to the characters' traits as we know them.
I didn't care for Chekov... he just annoyed me.​

One thing I was hoping to see was a display of Enterprises past like were on the wall of Archer's ready room ... With the NX-01 among them! ​

 

[Nimthim]

The following quote is my opinion as posted on the movie forum - ENT is the only Trek I really like other than TOS, but Mach5 has a truly valid point in comparing ENT to the new movie - writing, direction, and money are far superior for the movie.

"My girls took me to see the movie for Mother's Day and I have tried to catch up with this thread to see other's opinions and takes before posting - don't want to be too repetitive. In a nutshell, we all loved it!!
We have different points of view - my 16 YO has never watched scifi and, god bless her, she is the quintessential blonde cheerleader stereotype, although she is an honor student - my 32 YO is a science/math geek who has marginally enjoyed Trek, especially Kirk & Co., since she was a kid - and I am a somewhat geeky fan who got hooked on TOS in 1966 when I was 12. But, in the end, we really agreed on what we enjoyed about the movie.
Maybe it's a chick's point of view, but we really connected to the character development, the humor, the coming-of-age journey of both Kirk and Spock, the idea of finding your true friends in life, and low-key portrayal of Nero. The special effects, space battles, etc. were exciting, but not overdone, and by no means the central function of the movie, although the younger said some bits made her feel like she was in science class (not her favorite subject).
The elder daughter and I felt that the new cast gave us the essential elements of our favorite characters, and then spun some great new twists on them - we like these newer versions mucho grande. The younger had no frame of reference, but likes the characters very much - she really liked Chekov and was impressed that he is only 17. Since my family name is Pike, and my brother named his son after Capt. Pike, we have a fondness for the great portrayal of Pike by Greenwood. I liked the ordinariness of Nero with his random fits of maniacal madness. I don't like many of the over-the-top villians that are so common and overdone in movies so often.
I like the differences in this universe, especially those for Spock. There is tremendous potential to give these characters amazing new adventures. We agreed on keeping Vulcan destroyed, and although you might consider it a stretch that all these young officers ended up on the Enterprise, there is no more suspension of disbelief asked of the viewer than in almost any Trek movie or episode, or many other stories for that matter. Really didn't impact my enjoyment in any way.
We noticed the Spock/Uhura undercurrents from their first scene together. I thought the scene in the turbolift (when she tried to comfort him and got his Vulcan 'stiff upper lip' in response) showed a deep connection, caring, and understanding between these two - an extreme rarity in Trek to date, and a very welcome addition. We totally loved Kirk and Scotty responding to the kiss on the transporter pad.
So many things about Kirk's developing character that we found interesting - I'll just mention that one of the most telling for me was his diving off the platform after Sulu ('I don't believe in no-win scenarios'). And I loved that Vulcans and Romulans could totally whip his ass - one thing I hated about ENT was that Archer could always beat up any stronger alien.
In the end, when you pay your money to see the movie of your choice, you hope that the (fictional) story entertains you to your money's worth. We felt completely entertained BEYOND our money's worth, and that is what matters."

 

[commodore64]

We agreed on keeping Vulcan destroyed

Agreed. I always liked the Dr. Who references that #9 and #10 were the last of their kinds. It gives the character a lot more finality and complexity.

I also like that oldSpock is out there spreading his seed and wonder if it's a Vulcan we've met before. (Wouldn't that be funny.)

On Spock/Uhura, I think that was a mistake, especially them kissing in the Transporter Room. I don't even think nuSpock would be so unprofessional. And I think it's a mistake because it limits the Vulcans possible and potential mates. I suspect the reason people liked it, and I agree, is that it's fun to see the guy who never gets the girl get the girl. I think though that in the next movie, and I'm hoping there is one, they find a way to keep them together without making it soap operatic or break them up neatly (which I think would be tough).

 

[Skippy 2k]

I posted something I was thinking about the Trek XI/Ent timeline in the other forum but will here as well. I am an ent fan so hopefully I won't get attacked for suggesting the alt timeline thing...




It apparently branched out into this new timeline from when nero arrived and attacked the kelvin but I wonder how it might work with the FC/enterprise timeline. I like all trek including ent and have allways included it in the prime timeline in spite of the little things that might be off and thinking I read the creators intended it to be?

Anyway what if instead of brancing off with the kelvin attack it branched off from First Contact. What I was considering in the prime timeline the NX-01 was the Dauntless per "Hope and Fear" and "The Pegasus" occured just as is in the normal TNG timeline.

Now when it skewed off from first contact cochrane instead had the NX named Enterprise (not that archer and crews missions couldn't of been together in the original timeline) and some changes caused things to change slightly leading to the Trek XI timeline and the event with nero occured all along. The timeline occurs slightly differently but thru self correction the TNG era occurs similarly but now the differences in "These are the Voyages" are just the result of this offset timeline. I could also lead (for whatever reason I don't know) for the name Delta Vega to have been used for the planet near vulcan rather than the one near the edge of the galaxy?

This creates the new timeline but then also has the ent-e return the the original timeline and they exist at the same time rather than as my friend was at the movie was trying to say XI erased everything (which I don't agree with either way).


This is just something I was considering as it could kinda explain away some of the inconsistancies with ENT and TNG as portrayed in "TATV" other than just bad writing as might be the obvious.

 

[AJBryant]

I also like that oldSpock is out there spreading his seed and wonder if it's a Vulcan we've met before. (Wouldn't that be funny.)

My fantasy would be for a younger T'Pring to have survived, but not the younger Stonn (who she might not have even known at this point)... so we have an older Spock and a hot young T'Pring who should be betrothed to the younger Spock who actually seems to prefer Uhura...


Tony

 

[lceb]

I've decided to stop thinking about timelines and accept what is given. This Star Trek is in another timeline that sprang when the Kelvin was attacked.

about the movie...there are things that I loved, things that I just accepted and one thing I absolutely hate. My overall impression is positive, it was fun to watch and it seems to create new interest in Star Trek - although only time will tell. Still I'm not enthusiastic, I suppose I'll have to watch it a second time to be sure.

Good things
The opening scene - breathtaking.
The actors - better than what I expected. They bring new life to the characters and I'll be happy to watch their future adventures.

Things that I can accept with no real problem
The AU timeline, I don't know if it is well explained or not, I'm ok with it.
Spock being slightly OOC - he seems to be less detached and much more at ease with his emotions. I'm ok with the Spock-Uhura ship

The bad things
The plot holes and unbelievable coincidences. I would have liked a movie with a sound plot that can survive difficult questions of a son who overexamines everything.
The stupidly funny stuff like monsters chasing Kirk on the ice planet - a couple of minutes that could have been better used to explain better Nero's character and motives.

What I hate
Vulcan gone. It will be difficult for me to accept.

 

[Mach5]

One thing that never really occurred to me, and I just read it on another message board... In the new timeline the 24th century will most certainly not play out like it did in the prime timeline. In fact, the differences may be massive (like certain TNG/DS9/VOY characters never even being born).

Ergo, it is an acceptable assumption that TATV will also never happen in the new timeline. The events depicted in the holo-program may have happened, but since we know that those were not recorded images (Star Trek is not "Big Brother" - cameras are not everywhere), it is reasonable to assume that, even if this "historical" simulation exists in the new timeline, it is coniderably different then the one we saw (for example, history would never have a record of private moments like TnT in the shuttlepod, or Archer and T'Pol in Trip's quarters, it takes a lot of artistic freedom and imagination to fill in these blanks).

 

[ChristopherPike]

Whoa! Great to see you back, Skippy 2k.

I had a similiar thought about alternate timelines, but more to do with Enterprise's connection to the Original Series and reconciling that with the revised Abrams version. So much of the NX-01's set design, the computer displays and other touches no longer reflect that future evolution of treknology. Basically how Archer's fate differs too. He seems to live longer in the new film's universe (if you take Scotty's banishment to Delta Vega at face value), meanwhile in the original timeline he dies the night after the NCC-1701 launch 2245 according to the USS Defiant's computer. Thinking non-linear, that Kirk Prime era ship came from a place uneffected by the Temporal Cold War. Maybe because it hadn't happened yet. Began in the far future and ricocheted backwards in time, retroactively altering as it went. The Defiant surviving the changes by effectively crossing from one alternate universe to another.

 

[commodore64]

I also like that oldSpock is out there spreading his seed and wonder if it's a Vulcan we've met before. (Wouldn't that be funny.)

My fantasy would be for a younger T'Pring to have survived, but not the younger Stonn (who she might not have even known at this point)... so we have an older Spock and a hot young T'Pring who should be betrothed to the younger Spock who actually seems to prefer Uhura...


Tony

Irony abounds! I like it.