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Spoilers ENT: Rise of the Federation: Uncertain Logic by C. L. Bennett Review Thread

Rate Uncertain Logic.

  • Outstanding

    Votes: 28 41.2%
  • Above Average

    Votes: 31 45.6%
  • Average

    Votes: 6 8.8%
  • Below Average

    Votes: 2 2.9%
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    Votes: 1 1.5%

  • Total voters
    68
I have a question relating to the subject matter of Uncertain Logic. How can it be that in "Minefield", T'Pol displays no recognition at hearing the Romulan language but in Star Trek 2009 communications officer Hawkins says that he is not sure he can distinguish Vulcan and Romulan?
 
I have a question relating to the subject matter of Uncertain Logic. How can it be that in "Minefield", T'Pol displays no recognition at hearing the Romulan language but in Star Trek 2009 communications officer Hawkins says that he is not sure he can distinguish Vulcan and Romulan?

Maybe Hawkins was bluffing and had no idea what Romulan actually sounded like. Then again, Uhura did say she was conversant with "all three dialects" of Romulan. Maybe the one used in "Minefield" was the one that sounded the least like Vulcan.
 
Okay got a question:
Who is the really old/immortal engineer that Trip visits? I don't recall him from an episode or any of the Enterprise books before.
 
Archer's next post after COS Starfleet is in '69 as Ambassador to Andoria, if Christopher keeps to Sussman's timeline.
 
Okay got a question:
Who is the really old/immortal engineer that Trip visits? I don't recall him from an episode or any of the Enterprise books before.

Flint.
Gotcha. Where should I know him from? I didn't recognize the character.

The TOS episode "Requiem for Methuselah" was his first appearance; he was also a major character in Immortal Coil and The Body Electric, and he showed up in Rise of Khan and a SNW story whose name escapes me but that Christopher drew on for his appearance in this book.
 
Archer's next post after COS Starfleet is in '69 as Ambassador to Andoria, if Christopher keeps to Sussman's timeline.

That idea never made much sense to me. Even allowing for the idea that the UFP's Members would have "ambassadors" to the UFP like the U.N.'s Member States -- which is redundant, because the UFP is a sovereign state (unlike the U.N.) and its Members already have Federation Councillors -- the idea that the UFP would have an ambassador to its Members is... weird. The U.N. does not have ambassadors to its Member States -- its Member States have ambassadors to it.

Okay got a question:
Who is the really old/immortal engineer that Trip visits? I don't recall him from an episode or any of the Enterprise books before.

Flint.

Gotcha. But who is he, where should I know him from? Is he in other novels or something?

The Immortal, born Akhairn and commonly known in Trekdom as "Flint," is a character who first appeared in the TOS episode "Requiem for Methuselah". Canonically, that is his only appearance. But he has played an important role in the 2002 TNG novel Immortal Coil by Jeffrey Lang, and in the 2013 TNG trilogy Cold Equations by David Mack.

He also had a small cameo in the 2001 TOS novel The Eugenics Wars: The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Singh, Vol. 1 by Greg Cox, and in the 1994 TOS/TNG crossover novel Federation by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens. (Federation is no longer in continuity, having been superseded by Star Trek: First Contact.)
 
I have a question relating to the subject matter of Uncertain Logic. How can it be that in "Minefield", T'Pol displays no recognition at hearing the Romulan language but in Star Trek 2009 communications officer Hawkins says that he is not sure he can distinguish Vulcan and Romulan?

Maybe Hawkins was bluffing and had no idea what Romulan actually sounded like. Then again, Uhura did say she was conversant with "all three dialects" of Romulan. Maybe the one used in "Minefield" was the one that sounded the least like Vulcan.

Or maybe T'Pol was the one bluffing when she said she didn't know Romulan.
 
Archer's next post after COS Starfleet is in '69 as Ambassador to Andoria, if Christopher keeps to Sussman's timeline.

That idea never made much sense to me. Even allowing for the idea that the UFP's Members would have "ambassadors" to the UFP like the U.N.'s Member States -- which is redundant, because the UFP is a sovereign state (unlike the U.N.) and its Members already have Federation Councillors -- the idea that the UFP would have an ambassador to its Members is... weird. The U.N. does not have ambassadors to its Member States -- its Member States have ambassadors to it.

Could he be the Earth ambassador to Andoria? We know that Federation worlds have embassies to one another. (Right? You pay much more attention to this stuff than me.)
 
I have the feeling that the title "ambassador" has a different meaning in the Federation than it has today, perhaps due to alien influence.
 
I liked this one a lot, and voted above average - it's not the best of the best of ST novels, but it ranks way up there. Of the three RotF novels so far, I think I've liked this the best, although my memory of the first one is slipping away.

I really enjoy the way each volume has had multiple storylines with varying degrees of complexity and continuity. Gives a real sense of all that is going on in this time period, and makes the series true to it's title, rather than simply being a continuation of Enterprise. I'm looking forward to the next one and the continuation of the Ware storyline, as well as whatever else Christopher has in store for us.
 
I have the feeling that the title "ambassador" has a different meaning in the Federation than it has today, perhaps due to alien influence.

In the OED there are five historical definitions for ambassador, some of which may come closer to what UFP ambassadors might mean...?

OED said:
1.
a. An official messenger sent (singly, or as one of a party) by or to a sovereign or public body; an envoy, commissioner, or representative. esp.
b. A minister of high rank sent by one sovereign or state on a mission to another. (In the general sense (mostly in plural) now only historical; and when used as in b., commonly qualified as Ambassador Extraordinary, to distinguish it from sense 2.)
2. (= Ordinary or Resident Ambassador, formerly Ambassador Leger.) A minister at a foreign court, of the highest rank, who there permanently represents his sovereign or country, and has a right to a personal interview with the sovereign or chief magistrate of the country in which he resides.
3. An appointed or official messenger generally. (Formerly in common use, but now only fig., with distinct reference to the literal sense.)
4. Ambassador Leger (legier, lieger) (see sense 2); Ambassador Extraordinary (see sense 1); Ambassador Plenipotentiary: one with full power to sign treaties, and otherwise act for his sovereign.
5. ambassador-at-large (U.S.), an ambassador appointed to perform special duties, and not accredited to any one government or sovereign. Also transf.

Whilst similar, they are different. The quotations used to substantiate each meaning are interesting too, as are the variations suggested by the Historical Thesaurus integrated into the oed online.
 
Archer's next post after COS Starfleet is in '69 as Ambassador to Andoria, if Christopher keeps to Sussman's timeline.

That idea never made much sense to me. Even allowing for the idea that the UFP's Members would have "ambassadors" to the UFP like the U.N.'s Member States -- which is redundant, because the UFP is a sovereign state (unlike the U.N.) and its Members already have Federation Councillors -- the idea that the UFP would have an ambassador to its Members is... weird. The U.N. does not have ambassadors to its Member States -- its Member States have ambassadors to it.

Could he be the Earth ambassador to Andoria? We know that Federation worlds have embassies to one another. (Right? You pay much more attention to this stuff than me.)

Federation Member States do maintain diplomatic missions to one-another (Sarek was established in ST09 to be the Vulcan Ambassador to United Earth, for instance), so, yeah, I think your idea that he becomes United Earth Ambassador to the Andorian Empire makes a bit more sense than Federation Ambassador to the Andorian Empire. And, indeed, I just checked, and the bio screen seen in "In A Mirror, Darkly" does not specify whose ambassador to Andoria he was, so there's wriggle room for your interpretation there!

The idea of Federation Member States maintaining diplomatic missions to one-another is a little odd by modern standards, since it's not as though the Länder of Germany or states of India exchange ambassadors between each-other. But it does make sense that the Federation, even if it is a sovereign federal state, would function differently than a real-life federal state -- it is, after all, larger than any sovereign state that has ever existed in real history, even from its onset. So it makes sense that Federation law would allow its Member States to practice direct bilateral relations with one-another as a matter of practical necessity, presumably subject to Federation review. And there is some real-world precedent for this -- states in the U.S. can enter into interstate compacts with one-another with the consent of the U.S. Congress. Some interstate compacts can even accept foreign polities -- the Province of Ontario and the Province of Québec are both associate members of the Great Lakes Commission.

I have the feeling that the title "ambassador" has a different meaning in the Federation than it has today, perhaps due to alien influence.

An alternate possibility is that sometimes, the term "ambassador" may be used informally but inaccurately. For instance, you often hear of Ambassadors to the U.N. -- but their actual title by law is Permanent Representative to the United Nations. Maybe the representative of one Federation Member State to another has a different title by law, but is referred to as "ambassador" informally.
 
Yeah, the relationship between Earth and Vulcan probably has a lot more going on than that between Ohio and Connecticut by several orders of magnitude; that a dedicated position of "ambassadorship" would be necessary seems quite likely. I doubt every Federation member maintains an embassy to every other one, but geographically adjacent ones seem especially likely.

We also know that foreign powers can maintain embassies with Federation members; Kor was the Klingon ambassador to Vulcan, for example.
 
I figure the UFP started out as more of a loose federation like the European Union before developing into a more integrated state. Indeed, that's a thread in my ROTF novels (especially Tower of Babel), the way the worlds are feeling out just how close a union it will be, where the balance of power lies between the individual worlds and the central government. So maybe initially they were more like sovereign worlds in an alliance, sending ambassadors to each other as well as having representatives in a federal council, and then the "Ambassador" title continued to be used even as the nature of the job changed with the growing unity of the UFP.
 
Of course, any area in which Federation terminology or the specifics of member states' political relations differs from the realistic we can probably explain away as non-human influence. Presumably the inner workings of this sprawling interstellar community draw on the traditions and precedents established on all of the founding planets and early members. It might even be interesting to speculate from what we have on what those traditions and precedents on other worlds might be, if we can identify those consistencies that aren't compatible with anything in our actual political history and terminology. :)
 
After reading this third installment in the RotF series, where the plots of the two primary ships (and the Essex) are fairly self-contained, I was wondering if a format change may be more effective for future installments.

Like the Worlds of DS9 series, half of the book could be exclusively devoted to the Pioneer and the other half could feature the Endeavour and her crew (plus Archer). This approach wouldn't work when the two ship's storylines dovetail together in the third act, but a story like Uncertain Logic, I think, would benefit from a clear division in the novel -- short Endeavour novel, short Pioneer novel, and a bonus Essex short story at the end.

Christopher, have you considered toying with the format for these novels or is the current structure what you prefer for these tales? Just curious.

***

As I was reading the section about the discovery of the faux Kir'shara and the assumption that the original was most likely destroyed by the perpetrators, it reminded me of the real world destruction of historical sites and artifacts in Syria over the last half year by ISIS. After seeing footage of the marred sculptures and vandalized locations on the news, a wave of revulsion came over me and I was saddened by the irreplaceable loss to human history and culture.

The passages in the book about the Vulcan populace dealing with the loss of the Kir'shara -- an intensely important artifact in their history, culture, and way of life -- was very evocative to me of that feeling shared by those of us living on present-day Earth and feeling that same visceral grief over the immeasurable loss of tangible history. Obviously it's difficult to express that vague sense of loss (especially on a planet like Vulcan) but you managed to do a fine job, Christopher.

It gave the larger Vulcan story much more resonance for me. Kudos.

***

Any chance we'll see more of Vanot in future volumes? I really enjoyed Mayweather as "John Carter of Vanot" and thought that the planet would be fun to revisit. We got just enough details on the place to make it interesting and unique, but it felt like we only scratched the surface of the setting.
 
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