Endgame

[Dukhat]

In universe: because he's in said Nexus and can go back or forward in time but still has to physically leave said Nexus. Out of universe because otherwise he's either irredeemably stupid or irredeemably callus.

None of that answers my question. Please explain to me why he couldn't go back to, say, before Soran even leaves the Enterprise to go to the Amargosa array, and just have him arrested before he does anything? What does the Nexus' "path" have to do with anything?

 

[Guy Gardener]

None of that answers my question. Please explain to me why he couldn't go back to, say, before Soran even leaves the Enterprise to go to the Amargosa array, and just have him arrested before he does anything? What does the Nexus' "path" have to do with anything?

Unless you're in a space suit, leaving the nexus exposes you to a hard vacuum, and you're dead.

But Veridian III hadn't yet touched the Nexus when Kirk and PIcard Jumped out?

Maybe the Nexus has an invisible aura that extends for millions of km?

 

[at Quark's]

If Nexus-Guinan is right,you are perhaps not limited to the Nexus' path when exiting (depending on how exactly you read the statement):

GUINAN: But as I said, time has no meaning here. So if you leave you can go anywhere, any time.

 

[Dukhat]

If Nexus-Guinan is right,you are perhaps not limited to the Nexus' path when exiting (depending on how exactly you read the statement):

Exactly. Guinan told Picard he could go anywhere any time. Therefore, the Nexus had zero limits. The fact that he chose that particular point when almost any other choice would have been better was just bad scriptwriting.

Anyway, we’re getting off topic. This s supposed to be about Endgame, not Generations.

 

[Swedish Borg]

What I find funny is how rashly Picard decides where and when he's gonna leave the nexus instead of taking a little time to weigh his options. Things in that movie keep contradicting themselves, like when Guinan says that Picard will never want to leave the nexus, it should have at least looked like it was a hard decision for him to make, instead, it looked like he was sick of it in a matter of minutes and that he couldn't wait to get out of there.

 

[Oddish]

It also seemed that Picard's supposedly deep rooted (think "Mirror of Erised") desire for a family and children appeared a bit suddenly. Yes, his "Inner Light" experience ended his dislike for and discomfort around children, but we never saw it grow into anything. It seemed like it was more rooted in the desire to continue the Picard line than a primal urge for love and family.

We see more of that in Janeway, honestly. I think that there is a very real pathos in her "Endgame" character, a sense of isolation and loneliness. She lost Mark, Chakotay is dead, and she was alone with her regrets. I know all too well what it's like to regret the direction your life took, and know what you could have done to prevent it.

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

Not what I intended, I assure you. I disliked the pairing.

So do I. I meant that with Endgame, they were home sooner and Seven could hopefully find someone else! ;-) Oh, and Planky, too, ofc.

 

[Oddish]

Planky? Sounds like a reject from the Little Rascals.

 

[Swedish Borg]

I think what hurts Endgame is how little regard they have for coherence and believability. Janeway had seen many people die throughout the series under her watch so why would she choose that time to make her move? Why not before she made a deal with the Borg that we know condemned one species (the big-headed guy ) to assimilation? What's saving a handful of crewmen compared to saving an entire planet?
Chakotay's involvement with seven is a last-minute development. only a couple of episodes earlier they were both stranded on a planet and couldn't stand each other! The last time Seven left the ship (Dark Frontier), Chakotay's comment was basically "good riddance" and now we're supposed to believe that he's so madly in love with her that his life will be ruined if she dies? Please!

 

[NCC-73515]

There are a ton of issues with "Endgame", but the actions of the Klingon Korath always stood out to me. The man owns some kind of time machine. He doesn't need Janeway to put him on the High Council, with a device like that he can do it himself. And why would anyone ever agree to sell or trade their time machine? Once the buyer gets their hands on it they could do anything, like wipe you out of existence. In fact, once the buyer goes back in time it would probably create a paradox so that you could never benefit from the bargain you struck.

This has got to be the worst trade since

Spoiler: GoT Spoiler (if anyone still cares)

the Good Masters handed over their entire Unsullied army in exchange for a dragon from Daenerys Targaryen.

He didn't intend to give it to her, she stole it after he broke their agreement

What I find funny is how rashly Picard decides where and when he's gonna leave the nexus instead of taking a little time to weigh his options. Things in that movie keep contradicting themselves, like when Guinan says that Picard will never want to leave the nexus, it should have at least looked like it was a hard decision for him to make, instead, it looked like he was sick of it in a matter of minutes and that he couldn't wait to get out of there.

He did seem to enjoy it, but his conscience and maybe his training and sense of duty kept reminding him of the shockwaves Soran causes

It also seemed that Picard's supposedly deep rooted (think "Mirror of Erised") desire for a family and children appeared a bit suddenly. Yes, his "Inner Light" experience ended his dislike for and discomfort around children, but we never saw it grow into anything. It seemed like it was more rooted in the desire to continue the Picard line than a primal urge for love and family.

He didn't feel responsible for keeping the family line going and thought of Rene as kinda his kid as well, so everything changed when they died

 

[Oddish]

He didn't feel responsible for keeping the family line going and thought of Rene as kinda his kid as well, so everything changed when they died

But couldn't he have just "wished" Rene and his brother alive again?

 

[Dukhat]

We see more of that in Janeway, honestly. I think that there is a very real pathos in her "Endgame" character, a sense of isolation and loneliness. She lost Mark, Chakotay is dead, and she was alone with her regrets. I know all too well what it's like to regret the direction your life took, and know what you could have done to prevent it.

The problem is that changing your life changes other people's lives too. She clearly didn't care about Tom, Belanna, Kim, the Doctor, or anyone else. She only changed history because of her regrets about Seven, Chakotay, and Tuvok.

The only thing that would make sense in this scenario is if Admiral Janeway's timeline was not erased after she went back in time, but that it just created a branching timeline like in the Abrams films (and that she was aware of this, and just wanted to create a timeline where Seven & Chakotay didn't die and Tuvok didn't go nuts.) But that's not what the episode implies.

But couldn't he have just "wished" Rene and his brother alive again?

Or better yet, use the Nexus to go back to before they were killed in the fire, and prevent that from happening? It had only happened mere hours before.

 

[Oddish]

The problem is that changing your life changes other people's lives too. She clearly didn't care about Tom, Belanna, Kim, the Doctor, or anyone else. She only changed history because of her regrets about Seven, Chakotay, and Tuvok.

Oh, I never said I approved of her actions. Most assuredly, I do not. I merely understand her regret for what she saw as a bad decision.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The problem is that changing your life changes other people's lives too. She clearly didn't care about Tom, Belanna, Kim, the Doctor, or anyone else. She only changed history because of her regrets about Seven, Chakotay, and Tuvok.

The only thing that would make sense in this scenario is if Admiral Janeway's timeline was not erased after she went back in time, but that it just created a branching timeline like in the Abrams films (and that she was aware of this, and just wanted to create a timeline where Seven & Chakotay didn't die and Tuvok didn't go nuts.) But that's not what the episode implies.



Or better yet, use the Nexus to go back to before they were killed in the fire, and prevent that from happening? It had only happened mere hours before.

Robert and Rene were obviously kidnapped by Shinzon, and their bone marrow was milked to add a few weeks to the idiot clones life expectancy.

 

[Oddish]

Check this out... we almost got a really dark finale: https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2021/04/16/writers-dark-twist-planned-voyagers-homecoming/amp/

 

[at Quark's]

Check this out... we almost got a really dark finale: https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2021/04/16/writers-dark-twist-planned-voyagers-homecoming/amp/

Actually, doesn't sound too out of character for Janeway ... ('You dared to go on with your life without me? Nobody messes with She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed!')

Seriously though, it sounded like a good premise to me -or at the very least a great teaser- (though not necessarily a premise I'd want to see for the series' finale) ... up until this point: Supposedly, after Janeway kills Mark, thousands of duplicate Voyagers start heading toward Earth.

Now, that sounds just plain silly to me. I suppose there would be thousands of unpromoted Ensign Kims and Neelixes as well?

 

[Lynx]

Due to anger and disappointment over the events in a season 6 episode which never should have been made, I quit watching Voyager there and then missing out the last episodes in season 6 and almost all of season 7, except for "Endgame".

Five minutes before the airing of the episode started on TV, I decided to watch it. I just had to see how it all would end up for my old favorites.

After the episode was finished, I deeply regretted my decision to watch it.

"Endgame" was crap! A terrible dissapointment. While TNG:s final episode "All Good Things" left me with a certain feeling of joy and knowledge that the good old crew still were out there, ready for new adventures and DS9:s "What You Leave Behind" was a mixture of happines over the fact that the Dominion war was over with a victory for "The Good Guys" and devsatating sadness over how the good, old gang split up for good after seven wonderful years of adventures and interesting events, "Endgame" only annoyed me.

Long before the episode, I was hoping that the final episode would give us a real homecoming for our heroes, something like the end scenes in the first Star Wars movie. I was also hoping for a final showdown with Suspiria who would finally send them home and at least until near the end of season 6 I was also hoping and wishing for a return of Kes wo could play an important role when it came to helping them back to Earth.

None of that happened. Instead we got a badly written messed up story about time paradoxes, the Borg, Old Janeway and young Janeway which didn't make any sense. On top of that we got that Seven-Chakotay "romance" which was totally out of chemistry between the cjharacters and only can be seen as the big, obnoxious final finger from those in charge of the show to the most loyal group of the fans, the J/C-ers!

I found it really sad and almost ironic that a series which caught my attention in a very intensive way the first time I saw "Caretaker" should end with such a horrible dissapointment. In fact, Voyager and NCIS are the only series in which I started to like the series already from the start and in which I took an immediate liking to all the main characters from the beginning.

Despite it's flaws and despite being disappointing here and there, Voyager was agood show with a great premise and great characters. It would have deserved a better ending.

Sometimes I wish I had magic powers like Q or at least being a first class expert when it comes to animated movies. Then I would make a ten times better final episode for Voyager!

 

[Guy Gardener]

But couldn't he have just "wished" Rene and his brother alive again?

He did it.

Either he killed them, or every time he tried to unkill his family, things got worse.

Picard could have left and reentered the Nexus like it was the hokey pokey.

 

[Swedish Borg]

He did it.

Either he killed them, or every time he tried to unkill his family, things got worse.

Picard could have left and reentered the Nexus like it was the hokey pokey.

The problem is that the unkilling of his family meant having to go through Worf's terrible promotion ceremony again and he just could inflict that upon himself.

 

[diankra]

As the earlier parody put it.
Janeway: We're almost home.
Starfleet tech: Detecting Borg tech.
Admiral: Open fire!!!
(Pause for fx explosions)
Admiral: Oops.