Endgame

[Timo]

Where he emerged was not really along the path, though. It would only become the path if a certain set of actions were taken - and he set out to stop those from being taken!

What other timepoint could he have chosen? Solve one ancient crisis, all the later triumphs (of his, and of others') are annulled altogether. Plus he'd only have one shot at it: if he killed Hitler and it so happened that the universe was much, much worse off for it, him killing himself would hardly be sufficient penance.

Micromanaging wouldn't pay, either. Emerging a few days or weeks earlier to stop Soran from blowing up the first star would just mean having the Duras sisters on the loose with starkiller weapons (as far as Picard knew); emerging when Picard did would mean the sisters would be under the guns of the Federation Flagship.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Guy Gardener]

No Hitler, no space program, no first contact.

Earth is a Romulan Outpost.

 

[Quinton]

No items, Kirk only, Final Destination.

Earth is a Super Smash Bros reference.

 

[NCC-73515]

You can defeat any superior enemy with weapons from the future when the temporal police suddenly doesn't care anymore... it was like putting on god mode and all weapons cheats and beating the bosses with one shot each.

 

[Oddish]

Or by uncreating your enemy. For instance, go back to the 1770's and convince George III to give those pesky colonists what they want. USA never forms. And since the Federation charter is based on principles from the American Constitution, you've effectively deleted the Federation.

 

[Farscape One]

"All Good Things..."

A career stagnant officer gets a big rank boost. Someone is suffering from a degenerative brain disorder. An attack by two Negh'Var type Klingon ships. Time travel is a plot device. One person becomes a captain, another becomes an admiral, and another became an ambassador. A Galaxy class ship is seen in the final shot.


"ENDGAME"

A career stagnant officer gets a big rank boost. Someone is suffering from a degenerative brain disorder. An attack by two Negh'Var type Klingon ships. Time travel is a plot device. One person becomes a captain, another becomes an admiral, and another became an ambassador. A Galaxy class ship is seen in the final shot.

 

[Oddish]

Janeway's actual motivation...

"Harry's a WHAT?! A freaking CAPTAIN?! And one with his own ship?! After everything I do to trash his career, too... well, just one thing to do: erase the whole timeline."

 

[amp]

There are a ton of issues with "Endgame", but the actions of the Klingon Korath always stood out to me. The man owns some kind of time machine. He doesn't need Janeway to put him on the High Council, with a device like that he can do it himself. And why would anyone ever agree to sell or trade their time machine? Once the buyer gets their hands on it they could do anything, like wipe you out of existence. In fact, once the buyer goes back in time it would probably create a paradox so that you could never benefit from the bargain you struck.

This has got to be the worst trade since

Spoiler: GoT Spoiler (if anyone still cares)

the Good Masters handed over their entire Unsullied army in exchange for a dragon from Daenerys Targaryen.

 

[Swedish Borg]

I like all the trek series, however on rewatching Voyager i must say i was disappointed with the way it ended, i got the feeling it was rushed and not finished properly. I was left thinking it would have been nice to see what became of the crew when they got home, future assignments and their personal lives and relationships and promotions etc, Harry Kim an ensign for the whole series, it would have been nice to him promoted and how Seven deals with a planet filled with people and her relationship with Chakotay, i felt cheated.

Thoughts?

Yes, we saw only little glimpses of what they've become in an alternate timeline, which was a bit frustrating.

 

[Swedish Borg]

There are a ton of issues with "Endgame", but the actions of the Klingon Korath always stood out to me. The man owns some kind of time machine. He doesn't need Janeway to put him on the High Council, with a device like that he can do it himself. And why would anyone ever agree to sell or trade their time machine? Once the buyer gets their hands on it they could do anything, like wipe you out of existence. In fact, once the buyer goes back in time it would probably create a paradox so that you could never benefit from the bargain you struck.

This has got to be the worst trade since

Spoiler: GoT Spoiler (if anyone still cares)

the Good Masters handed over their entire Unsullied army in exchange for a dragon from Daenerys Targaryen.

I don't know. Didn't Janeway have to take an untested drug to survive the trip to the past? Plus she did say it was a one-way trip, didn't she? I don't think, Korath could have had much use for such a device.

 

[Oddish]

Yes, we saw only little glimpses of what they've become in an alternate timeline, which was a bit frustrating.

Especially since that alternate timeline involved an additional 16 years in the Delta Quadrant, and the loss of several close friends. Would Miral have been the same without spending her first 16 years on Voyager? Would 7 and Chakotay remain an item if other choices were offered? Would Tom pursue holonovel writing? Would the Doctor find a name and romance? The slate is effectively wiped, and we have only the de-canonized ideas offered by Star Trek Online to tell us what came next.

Endgame gave us a whole lot of what we didn't want, and refused to give us what we did.

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

Especially since that alternate timeline involved an additional 16 years in the Delta Quadrant, (...) Would 7 and Chakotay remain an item if other choices were offered?

OK, that's a very strong pro Endgame.

Endgame gave us a whole lot of what we didn't want, and refused to give us what we did.

True.

 

[Oddish]

OK, that's a very strong pro Endgame.

Not what I intended, I assure you. I disliked the pairing.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Anika's Admiral Aunty is going to take one look at them and say "No".

"Jesus, he's rebel scum.You can do better."

 

[Dukhat]

For very nearly 20 years and counting, I've been 100% convinced that "Endgame" needed to be the two-hour penultimate lead-in to a regular-length coda episode. Such a missed opportunity.

Or, you know, if that's too weird for the network, just do the first half of "Endgame" the penultimate week and combine the second half with a coda. Whatever.

The point here is that "dammit." I like the episode on its own terms overall. (Seven/Chakotay will never not disgust me but whatever.) As a series finale, however? Man, Kate Mulgrew sold the word "home" better than anybody else I've ever seen, but that ought to have been the start of an ending, not the ending itself.

I'm glad I can see Seven again in Star Trek: Picard. (I'm doubly grateful that I actually like the series as well as its depiction of Seven. I know that's far from absolute consensus.) But it's a shame that I'm quite as desperate as I am to see other Voyager characters again -- I mean, it'd be great regardless, but I wish it weren't due to a nonexistent denouement.

Here's the thing about Seven, though: Other than the fact that she is a former Borg drone, there is absolutely nothing in PIC that links her to her time on Voyager. She acts nothing like she did before, she never mentions anyone from her former crew (not even Chakotay, which was the reason why Admiral Janeway changed the past in the first place), and she's part of some ill-defined space vigilante group described by Michael Chabon as a "decentralized, non-hierarchical, quasi-anarchist affiliation of independent operators working in and around the former Neutral Zone, pledged to defend the weak and vulnerable from the predations of the strong and unscrupulous." So this is what 7 of 9 has been up to for the last twenty years? Wow, that life was definitely worth Admiral Janeway changing the timeline just for her.

This character could have been anyone. The only reason why it was Seven was to link to Picard's time as a Borg, just like why Hugh was in the show.

I always assumed he could only leave the Nexus along its path.

Nope, he specifically states to echoGuinan the exact point in time he wants to go.

 

[dupersuper]

Nope, he specifically states to echoGuinan the exact point in time he wants to go.

Which was along the Nexus' path...

 

[Dukhat]

Which was along the Nexus' path...

What exactly is the Nexus' "path?"

 

[dupersuper]

What exactly is the Nexus' "path?"

 

[Dukhat]

Um, showing some screencaps doesn't answer my question. Why would Picard be limited to where he could time travel when he left the Nexus?

 

[dupersuper]

Um, showing some screencaps doesn't answer my question. Why would Picard be limited to where he could time travel when he left the Nexus?

In universe: because he's in said Nexus and can go back or forward in time but still has to physically leave said Nexus. Out of universe because otherwise he's either irredeemably stupid or irredeemably callus.