Ender's Game

[Reverend]

Yeah, the last time I heard, it was in development hell. It would be a tough movie to make while still staying true to the material. I've also heard about a game, but I'm not entirely sure how they would make a game out of it either.

Well it's the battle room or nothing really, isn't it? Though having two teams of players bouncing around a giant cube in zero gravity trying to paralyse each other into submission sounds like fun on paper, I'm not so sure how it'd translate well into a gameplay mechanic.

Since it's essentially and exercise in coordinated strategic manoeuvring it'd probably have to be something akin to an RTS but I can't see that kind of content maintaining much interest past a tutorial level and having it be about the actual attacks on the Formic worlds would just be Homeworld with insects.

 

[Lt. Trull]

one question... you are only getting your preception from the beginning of the first book right.... you really have no idea how they are described in the books that come after do you?

 

[Owain Taggart]

Yeah, the last time I heard, it was in development hell. It would be a tough movie to make while still staying true to the material. I've also heard about a game, but I'm not entirely sure how they would make a game out of it either.

Well it's the battle room or nothing really, isn't it? Though having two teams of players bouncing around a giant cube in zero gravity trying to paralyse each other into submission sounds like fun on paper, I'm not so sure how it'd translate well into a gameplay mechanic.

Yeah, exactly. It might just be a bit too limiting, unless it's sold by EA like a sports title like they've done with Quidditch World Cup

 

[Satyrquaze]

yeah, no. No way the Buggers are in anyway related to or inspiration for the Borg.

 

[drazzz52923849]

one question... you are only getting your preception from the beginning of the first book right.... you really have no idea how they are described in the books that come after do you?

this is fact.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The Borg were an amalgam of a lot of ideas floating around in sf/f - killer robots, hive mind, vampires/zombies. I doubt they came from any one source.

 

[Listener4]

I was a bit disappointed by the book. I had read many extremely positive reviews, that I don't think the book really deserved. It's good, but not that good. I also read the second book but lost interest after that.

 

[RoJoHen]

Well, the book has to have some literary worth. It's starting to become required reading in high school english classes.

 

[farmkid]

I found the book at a school book fair in 8th grade. It was still a new book then. Having never heard of it, but liking the cover I bought it. I then read it straight through that night and finished at 4:00 AM. I was enthralled all the way through. I've since read all of the sequels and most of Card's other work, and he remains one of my favorite authors. Now, my own son is 13 and a voracious reader. I'm excited to share the book with him.

 

[stj]

The original novella was at least readable, but I could never hack the expansion into a "novel."

Putting stories on screen means actually showing some things that the reader imagines. Unfortunately for things like Ender's Game, what the reader imagines is nonsense. Essentially, Ender's Game says that abusing children makes them smarter and stronger. And that forcing them to fight each other makes them natural leaders. This is nonsense (probably an inadvertent outgrowth of some wingnut ideology, Card being a notorious right winger with a crazy blog.) There's no way to put drivel like that on screen without exposing the stupidity of it all.

As near as I can make out, Ender's Game is the great example of scifi that can only appeal to an adolescent ignorant enough of the real world to swallow the insane premises and daydream about being poor old Ender, the special kid who is suffering hero, conquering hero, both abused and pitied by adults. Kinda creepy actually. Makes you want to rethink the whole scifi fandom thing.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

As near as I can make out, Ender's Game is the great example of scifi that can only appeal to an adolescent ignorant enough of the real world to swallow the insane premises and daydream about being poor old Ender, the special kid who is suffering hero, conquering hero, both abused and pitied by adults. Kinda creepy actually. Makes you want to rethink the whole scifi fandom thing.

stj, you've read John Kessel's essay on the book, "Creating the Innocent Killer: Ender's Game, Intention, and Morality," haven't you?

Putting stories on screen means actually showing some things that the reader imagines. Unfortunately for things like Ender's Game, what the reader imagines is nonsense.

I don't know that I'd call what the reader imagines is happening in Ender's Game "nonsense," per se. But Card's narrative voice certainly lies to the reader, because the consequences of Ender's actions aren't shown to the reader, or even acknowledged, until much later in the narrative. It's a book that is fundamentally dishonest with the reader, and as Kessel explains, it's a deliberate dishonesty, done to keep Ender "pure" in the eyes of the reader, when Ender is far from innocent. And that's why I think the film would be incredibly difficult to do. I'm not saying it couldn't be done (look at "The Usual Suspects," where the entire film is a lie), but it would be tough.

This is nonsense (probably an inadvertent outgrowth of some wingnut ideology, Card being a notorious right winger with a crazy blog.)

Card's politics are very difficult to pigeonhole. He claims to be, and still insists, that he's a Democrat, but his expressed opinions on the great issues of the day are either (economic policy) libertarian, (domestic policy) modern Republican Party conservative, or (foreign policy) neoconservative. Yet Card has always been dogged by the reputation of being too liberal and too permissive for the Mormon church, and some of his writing displays an acceptance of lifestyles that he himself would condemn in the here-and-now. He's a conundrum.

 

[Forbin]

the reason why i think the borg was because of the queen idea. and below

But the Borg Queen was an afterthought created for First Contact. She didn't exist at all in the original concept of the Borg as first developed for the series.

 

[stj]

stj, you've read John Kessel's essay on the book, "Creating the Innocent Killer: Ender's Game, Intention, and Morality," haven't you?

Not till I clicked on the link you've so kindly provided. Kessel's essay is more articulate than my quick remarks (what wouldn't be?) But he anticipates my objections because the problem is there, in the novel, an objective fact.

There's an implication in the Radford essay Kessel links to that Card reverses the ethical implications of Ender's Game later in the series. I wouldn't put too much stock in that. Extended series almost always end up denying their original themes, reversing themselves, in a desperate attempt to say something new.

Card, like Heinlein, has confused beliefs, but professes to be a Democrat because he wants to imagine his politics are somehow humane. You have to be sort of sociopathic or perverted to get off on openly being cruel.

Having difficulties with the Mormon Church stems from the fact that religious institutions are viciously reactionary. Ender making up a religion is uncomfortably like Joseph Smith making up a religion. On some level all the Mormons (and the people who "respect" them, because at some level they know their religions were made up too!,) know this. Hence a professed believer like Card must trouble with his masters when he allows doubts (no matter how well disguised) into his well-known discourse.

PS Adolescents of all ages who feel criticized in their tastes should remember that adults realize that adolescent fantasies are appropriate to adolescents. Also, as for the unpleasant moral implications, loving Ender's Game can be much like enjoying porn, a quick thrill and you shrug off any deeper thinking.

 

[Reverend]

Essentially, Ender's Game says that abusing children makes them smarter and stronger. And that forcing them to fight each other makes them natural leaders.

Indeed it is nonsense and I don't think that's what the book says at all. For starters these aren't just any old children, they're a carefully selected minority picked out specifically for their potential. They even rejected extremely capable candidates like Peter and Valentine because their psychological profiles didn't suit. The regimen they're put though is certainly tough but hardly abusive. The combat in the battle room doesn't even involve physical contact, it's all tactics and strategy. They get hit by a harmless laser and their suits freeze up. That's all.

More to the point the program wasn't intended to crank out legions of super-generals, it was meant to forge ONE leader and it took a couple generations to do it. The closest any of it got to abuse was in allowing Ender to enter a situation where he'd have to kill another child in self defence, which was not so much abuse as it was benign (yet brutal) neglect.

It might also be worth asking if the author is saying all this is a good thing? Well let's see; did it work? Yes, Ender (or more accurately Bean) did what was needed, when it came right down to it. Was in necessary? No, as it turns out. The entire war was unnecessary. The Formics weren't going to attack again, the Queens had realised their mistake during the second attack and would have left humanity alone. Of course humanity had no way of knowing that so the whole thing was an unmitigated tragedy on all sides. More so when you consider that Ender was only born in the first instance because the Fleet "requisitioned" his birth specifically for Battle School.

As far as OSC's politics go, personally I don't have a clue where he stands on most issues and couldn't care less. That's his business. Still saying you can't pigeon-hole his stance into one coherent line of opinion be it liberal, conservative or anything in between or round the corner isn't what I'd call much of a criticism. To me, (just based on those claims) it sounds like the man has a mind of his own and can form his own opinions, regardless of what those around him may or may not think. If only more people had that capacity.

 

[propita]

And, believe it or not, Maurice Hurley's original idea for the Borg was an insectoid race like the Buggers (or, as later editions call them, the Formics), but it wasn't feasible on TNG's budget.

**cough** Species 8472 **cough**

 

[Reverend]

^In what way were they insects and how were they on TNG's budget?