Empire Strikes Back question

[Starfleet Engineer]

Got out ESB and watched for the first time in years. Here's my question.

Was there ever an explanation given about the cave on Dagoba where Yoda tells Luke he won't need his weapons (but then he does need his weapon). Luke enters the cave and sees a "vision" of Vader and his face in Vader's helmet. I don't remember if we ever get any explanation about what's special about this place or why Luke has the vision there. Anyone know?

 

[Skywalker]

There's never been a canon explanation AFAIK, but I believe the EU came up with a story about Yoda tracking down a Dark Jedi who had been on the run. Yoda caught up to him on Dagobah and they fought, and Yoda slew the Dark Jedi in that cave, but the Dark Jedi's presence continued to linger there afterward, tainting the cave with the Dark Side.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Yoda was just messing with him.

It was an animatronic robot.

Nearby are the graves of those trainees who failed the test, listened to Yoda, left their weapons behind, and got sliced in two.

What, you thought Luke was the only one? Shit, Yoda's been greeting would-be-jedi for 20 years.

 

[Nowhere Man]

I don't think he was ever in any real danger, I always thought it was a halucination. There has never been real explanation though.

 

[SeerSGB]

I think, EU aside, the whole point of "not needing weapons" was that if Luke was truly a Jedi he could face his inner demons and not rely on or need weapons. Basically, Luke was facing down his darker natures and his own bloodline and he had to be ready and willing to sacrifice himself rather than fight.

 

[Plomeek Broth]

That EU explanation does work quite nicely though.

 

[Gaith]

There's never been a canon explanation AFAIK, but I believe the EU came up with a story about Yoda tracking down a Dark Jedi who had been on the run. Yoda caught up to him on Dagobah and they fought, and Yoda slew the Dark Jedi in that cave, but the Dark Jedi's presence continued to linger there afterward, tainting the cave with the Dark Side.

This. It's from the Thrawn trilogy, which is 100% canon in my own mind.

Also, that story explains how Yoda survived Palps and Vader's Jedi hunts - his light force presence counteracted the cave's dark force presence, thus allowing him to keep his whereabouts entirely secret.

 

[captcalhoun]

it was Stacy in the cave in a Vader costume. Damn Yoda's twisted sense of humour

 

[Skywalker]

There's never been a canon explanation AFAIK, but I believe the EU came up with a story about Yoda tracking down a Dark Jedi who had been on the run. Yoda caught up to him on Dagobah and they fought, and Yoda slew the Dark Jedi in that cave, but the Dark Jedi's presence continued to linger there afterward, tainting the cave with the Dark Side.

This. It's from the Thrawn trilogy, which is 100% canon in my own mind.

Ah, thank you. And this is Star Wars, so as long as it isn't explicitly labeled otherwise or if Lucas doesn't say otherwise, it's all canon.

 

[The Castellan]

Lucas pulled that scene outta his butt, if you ask me.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

My interpretation has been is this: in bringing his weapons down there, in expeting to find something, and in gving into the bad vibes he got from the cave, the DSOTF was able to manifest itself into the image of Vader. If he didn't bring his weapons, if he didn't expect to find something, and if he didn't give into the DSOTF, he wouldn't have seen Vader's image. By the way, Vader was actually him, a depiction of what he could become, which is the whole point of the scene.

You know I'm kind of glad the scene is a bit open like that. These days, it seems that every "plothole" has to be knotted and tied with a bow, that nothing is obcure, nothing is left to the imagination. They were trying to hit on something profound in this scene and by leaving the viewer with questions as to what was going and how it ws happening made the scene much more potent. Really, what made it special was Yoda's dour reaction, because he knew what choice Luke would make, and could only watch him make it.

 

[Lindley]

There's also an example of the other way the scene could have gone in one of the books. I don't recall which one, maybe the Jedi Academy Trilogy.

The trainee in question---I want to say Kyp Durron, but I'm not positive---encounters a dark image of himself, but accepts that aspect of himself rather than fighting it.

 

[MarianLH]

Yoda tells him he'll find "what you bring with you" in the cave. He brought weapons, he brought aggressiveness, and when confronted with a threat, he responded by attacking. Note that he ignites his saber first. The vision was a warning that this attitude would lead him to the dark side.


Marian

 

[captcalhoun]

There's also an example of the other way the scene could have gone in one of the books. I don't recall which one, maybe the Jedi Academy Trilogy.

The trainee in question---I want to say Kyp Durron, but I'm not positive---encounters a dark image of himself, but accepts that aspect of himself rather than fighting it.

Kup Durron encounters a kind of Force ghost-cum-vision of his brother who he killed at Carida and is forgiven by the ghost-vision for causing his death.

that scene occurs on Yavin in a Massassi temple.

 

[Lindley]

Right, that's what I was thinking of.

 

[Basill]

It was quite the acid trip scene. I used to hate the scene, but I've grown to appreciate it far more as an adult. I always saw it as something of a test. It was test of trust, one which he failed. At that point he still didn't trust Yoda (much less the Force) enough to take him at his word when he told him he would not need his weapons. And yes, in taking the weapons with him, he brought on the very image he had to confront. Another telling point was how Luke acted very unlike a Jedi when he behaved as the instigator in his "Duel of the Mushrooms," being the first to draw his lightsaber, and leaping to attack the Vader visage first, even though Yoda had just told him a Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense only.

Still, it was a learning experience (exposing inner demons, possible futures and all that...) though he wouldn't get it until much later.

Post Edit: Heh. I always take too long to post these things when I'm at work. MarianLH beat me to it. very well said. Short and sweet.

 

[Base_Delta_Zero]

It was also mirrored in the Mysteries of the Sith expansion for the Dark Forces games where you, as Mara Jade, encounter what you dreaded: the fallen Kyle Katarn. It takes place in another creepy cave and by refusing to engage him in combat or even raise your lightsaber in defense, win the encounter and turn him back to the light.

 

[Argus Skyhawk]

This is not as detailed as what others have posted, but for what it is worth I recall that according to the children's picture book version of The Empire Strikes Back that I owned as a child, the vision Luke saw in the cave meant that he was not yet ready to face Vader. This is consistent with the conversation later on when Luke is about to rush off to try to save Leia and Han; Yoda tells Luke to remember his failure in the cave, and Luke responds "But I've learned so much since then."