Elon and SpaceX outline thier plans to go to Mars!

[Asbo Zaprudder]

What is it about space colonization that encourages talk about how there'll just be no choice but to kill the uppity types? Do people even hear when they're doing it?

It's the sort of detail that needs to be established up front before anyone commits to this. What rules are required for the colony to survive and prosper? Who judges and who selects those judges? I assume not just anyone would be allowed to go even if they can stump up the money. They must probably be vetted to make sure that they have the "right stuff" and that they will make a positive contribution without becoming a burden. What happens to people who become dependent on others due to age, accident, or illness when there is no return flight to Earth due for many months? These are questions about how such a colony can survive under applied stress that must be addressed. Remember Roanoke.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

It's the sort of detail that needs to be established up front before anyone commits to this. What rules are required for the colony to survive and prosper? Who judges and who selects those judges? I assume not just anyone would be allowed to go even if they can stump up the money. They must probably be vetted to make sure that they have the "right stuff" and that they will make a positive contribution without becoming a burden. What happens to people who become dependent on others due to age, accident, or illness when there is no return flight to Earth due for many months? These are questions about how such a colony can survive under applied stress that must be addressed. Remember Roanoke.

Everybody at Roanoke didn't die, though. The colonists are mostly thought to have broken off into smaller communities and integrated with Native American tribes in the area, and this wasn't due to the colony disintegrating as a result of misbehavior or poor management, but a historic drought and lack of natural resources at the Roanoke site. The colony itself was practically unsustainable for reasons that had nothing to do with the behavior or mentality of the colonists.

 

[psCargile]

People are going to die. That's an expected given. But there is a difference between understanding the dangers and putting your life at risk, and having the misconception that space travel and colonization is save and unknowingly putting yourself at risk. You really have to know Mars well before putting people on it. We need to know how the body reacts to low gravity and how it reacts to centrifugal force to simulate gravity before we start colonizing any world.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

We already have years of research on the effects of microgravity on the human body. Negative symptoms include:

• Bone deterioration and muscle atrophy.
• Dehydration.
• Anemia.
• Lowered immune response.
• Blurred vision.
• Difficulty with balance.

On Mars, the reduced gravity will probably produce some of those effects, though likely in less severe forms since Mars offers at least a decent fraction of Earth gravity. Dehydration, anemia, and poor immune response will probably be the most difficult health issues on a Martian colony, given their impact on overall health and the extent to which they can incapacitate or kill individuals.

 

[fireproof78]

People are going to die. That's an expected given. But there is a difference between understanding the dangers and putting your life at risk, and having the misconception that space travel and colonization is save and unknowingly putting yourself at risk. You really have to know Mars well before putting people on it. We need to know how the body reacts to low gravity and how it reacts to centrifugal force to simulate gravity before we start colonizing any world.

Wasn't that the purpose of having an astronaut live for a year in space? To gain some measure of understanding of how the body might change?

Personally, I'm glad Musk feels the need to continue the effort to find a way to colonize Mars. If people are willing to do the research and determine solutions to potential problems, then I think that could actually benefit humanity in the long run.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I will say that, looking at the Mars proposal seriously, it's a joke. Musk has put all his thought into how you get people to Mars, which is not at all the hard part. The hard part is what you do once you're there and I don't see much evidence that's been thought through at all.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Everybody at Roanoke didn't die, though. The colonists are mostly thought to have broken off into smaller communities and integrated with Native American tribes in the area, and this wasn't due to the colony disintegrating as a result of misbehavior or poor management, but a historic drought and lack of natural resources at the Roanoke site. The colony itself was practically unsustainable for reasons that had nothing to do with the behavior or mentality of the colonists.

No-one really knows for certain what happened though, do they? It's generally believed that that Powhatan slaughtered them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roanoke_Colony#Hypotheses_about_the_disappearance
No natives on Mars so that's a relief.

 

[sojourner]

I will say that, looking at the Mars proposal seriously, it's a joke. Musk has put all his thought into how you get people to Mars, which is not at all the hard part. The hard part is what you do once you're there and I don't see much evidence that's been thought through at all.

He's made it pretty clear that he's building a transportation network. He's leaving it up to his customers on what to do once they get there.

 

[fireproof78]

I will say that, looking at the Mars proposal seriously, it's a joke. Musk has put all his thought into how you get people to Mars, which is not at all the hard part. The hard part is what you do once you're there and I don't see much evidence that's been thought through at all.

I wonder if that focus is due to the getting there being the more immediate problem to solve by current technology. It isn't the hard part, per se, but it is the first hurdle in the process.

I would hope that the health and safety of the first colonists would be among the considerations for planning this trip out, but Musk might also be worried more about the tech and less about the human logistics.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

He's made it pretty clear that he's building a transportation network. He's leaving it up to his customers on what to do once they get there.

They're probably fucked then. Might make a reality show -- albeit a rather tragic one.

 

[fireproof78]

No network would carry it. Be like making a reality show about the Titanic.

 

[sojourner]

And no depiction of Titanic in the media has ever made millions/billions of dollars... oh, wait.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

There aren't enough legal liability waivers in the world for something like this.

 

[publiusr]

This one?
http://www.science20.com/robert_inv...orbit_with_rc_rovers_and_nature_inspired_ava_
Venus might be a better bet by floating colonies in its atmosphere although its gravity well is nearly as deep as Earth's so getting off the planet is harder:
http://www.science20.com/robert_inv...us_like_buckminster_fullers_cloud_nine-127573

You just need a light plastic garment and an oxygen bottle to go outside the envelope:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20160006329.pdf
https://forum.cosmoquest.org/showthread.php?162293-NASA-s-crewed-Venus-airship-feasibility-study


I do wish Musk all the best. Now, I might use the BFR to build ring-station/cyclers.

This way, he could use smaller capsules to link with them--as in a fast taxi launched by Falcon heavy. More modest, yes--but a good way to start out.

 

[PurpleBuddha]

There aren't enough legal liability waivers in the world for something like this.

All he has to do is move to Mars and base his company there. People who want to sue him will have to show up to court in his jurisdiction.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

You just need a light plastic garment and an oxygen bottle to go outside the envelope.

On Mars and in space, you need a full pressure suit of course. However, Venus is a lot further in the future of manned colonisation or possibly never. Gravity wells are best avoided unless there are resources that can't be obtained elsewhere.

 

[fireproof78]

And no depiction of Titanic in the media has ever made millions/billions of dollars... oh, wait.

A reality show? Really?

 

[sojourner]

A reality show? Really?

Not saying it would work, just that your example was bad.

 

[Scout101]

I dunno, half the popularity (probably more) of the recent high-wire walking and skydiving without parachute reality specials was the chance that the star of the show may die live on tv, so it's not without precedent.

Filming a reality show about the first attempt to colonize Mars may be grim/depressing live, but could probably be recut into something watchable without setting the space program back 100 years. Not like it's Hunger Games and we're selecting people to die, frame it more as brave struggle of early pioneers that know the score going in.

Not pushing for it, exactly, but at least there would be more to offer than a real-life Survivor and death porn...

 

[fireproof78]

Not saying it would work, just that your example was bad.

Possibly. I just don't think that a film based upon the Titanic involving fictional characters is different than a reality show about the Titanic.