Ellison is pissed
- Thread starter Admiral Buzzkill
- Start date
Is that why that rumor I heard, about Tam showing up on Voyager, didn't pan out?
I'm assuming that you're joking about that, but when I pitched "Voyager" I did have one about Tam and Gomtuu prepared because it seemed somewhat logical. I didn't actually get around to it, though.
^ I wasn't joking, I really did hear that Tam would appear on the show when Gomtuu was pulled into the DQ. I didn't know that *you* were the one who prepared it. Although that could have been a coincidence - probably a lot of people thought this would happen.
Don't suppose you could give us a clue about what would have happened in the episode, though?
Don't suppose you could give us a clue about what would have happened in the episode, though?
^ That joke was a real Groener. 
DontFeedPhil
Fleet Captain
I have to say if they are going to use elements of the story HE created they better pay him. If its good enough to use as an element in a new story then it's good enough to pay for.
I just re-read the chapter from Inside Star Trek by Herb Solow and Bob Justman concerning the insanity surrounding "City." After Ellison won the WGA award for best script in '67*, he proceeded to rip into the "suits" (namely Roddenberry, Solow, Justman**, & Gene Coon) for re-writing the script. After witnessing the tirade first-hand, he turned to Herb and the other guests at the table and said, "So what else is new?" Ellison has always hated the fact that they "dared" to re-write his script and is likely insanely jealous of how popular the final episode became.
* = As an added jab to the Trek folks, he submitted a re-revised draft of his final draft to the WGA for the award, not the shooting script.
** = Ironically, Ellison owes a lot of his TV success to Justman. He saved "The Demon with the Glass Hand" script from getting canned by The Outer Limits by suggesting how the story could be told on a realistic budget. He did the same for "City" when it could have easily been canned because of its budget, creative differences with Roddenberry's vision of Trek, and Harlan's own idiosyncrasies (which resulted in it taking nearly five months to get his final script after he had gotten the assignment). Way to piss on the hand that fed you.
Starship Polaris said:
I find it both easy to grasp and easy to sympathize with.
I'm enormously grateful to the WGA for all they do to secure and protect the rights of authors in the TV and movie business - the residuals that I still receive from my TV work are modest by most standards but they do make life a little easier.
Amen and more power to you guys! I liked the work you did for TNG and you deserve every penny. If Paramount is gonna make money off your work ad infinitum then you should get a bit of it, too.
And so should Ellison.
First off, David wouldn't have had to pay Ellison, since he does not retain ownership of his Star Trek novels; at the time, if payment had been required, Paramount would have had to pay. If Imzadi were published today, CBS Studios would have had to pay.
However, it's my understanding that Paramount/CBS doesn't have to pay royalties to use one-off characters that Paramount/CBS owns in the novels, as this is not required in the WGA contract. However, if the writer of an episode were to retain legal ownership, then that changes and the writer has the same rights over the character or element that he has in a live-action production. So, if they want to use the Daleks in a Doctor Who novel, then they have to get permission from the Terry Nation estate and pay it royalties (though the situation is a bit different becase the authors of Doctor Who novels retain the copyright of the novel instead of it going to the BBC).
In any event, way back in the day, Peter David contacted Ellison and asked, personally, for permission from him to use the Guardian in Imzadi. If Ellison doesn't own the Guardian, it wasn't legally necessary, but David did it anyway because they're friends. It's my understanding that Ellison neither asked for nor recieved royalties for the Guardian's use in that novel.
It's my understanding that the principle characters of the original Star Trek, like Star Trek itself, are owned lock, stock, and barrell by CBS and that Paramount Pictures currently has the license from CBS to produce films based upon it. In the past, the whole thing would have been owned by Paramount.
So, no, they don't need the Roddenberry estate's permission for anything.
I don't believe that anyone involved has issued any statements about the issue since Ellison threw his hissy fit about a year ago. The novels were published, and author David R. George III acknowledge Ellison's original contributions just like he acknowleged a those of many other Trek writers and actors in the acknowledgments section of the final novel.
It is, however, my understanding that Ellison has never recieved royalties nor been required to be asked for permission for any of the novels or comics in which the Guardian has been used, including Yesterday's Son and Time for Yesterday from the early-to-mid-80s, which very prominently featured the Guardian.
If his WGA contract from "City" is similar to that of other TOS freelancers, it's my understanding that he would probably be owed royalties for use of the Guardian, but they wouldn't have to ask his permission to use it, nor would he have creative control over the Guardian's use, nor would he have the right to use the Guardian himself in other fiction, as CBS would retain ownership of it.
Ellison was making the same noise about the use of the Guardian and Edith Keeler in the recent Crucible novel trilogy by David R. George III about a year ago, so I don't think the WGA strike has anything to do with this.
This, too, depends upon Fontana's contract. Ellison was a freelancer, not part of the regular writing staff, but Fontana was a staff writer, so it's possible that her contract differed. She may not be owed any royalties for use of Amanda and Sarek at all, in point of fact, because she's a staffer. Similarly, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone having to pay Roddenberry or Fontana royalties for the use of Q from their episode "Encounter at Farpoint," nor Katharyn Powers for the use of Elim Garak from "Past Prologue"."
Brutal Strudel said:
Starship Polaris said:
I find it both easy to grasp and easy to sympathize with.
I'm enormously grateful to the WGA for all they do to secure and protect the rights of authors in the TV and movie business - the residuals that I still receive from my TV work are modest by most standards but they do make life a little easier.
Amen and more power to you guys! I liked the work you did for TNG and you deserve every penny. If Paramount is gonna make money off your work ad infinitum then you should get a bit of it, too.
And so should Ellison.
Thanks.
Because he says mean things about Star Trek? Because monkey boy primate humans are programmed to think that the alpha executives deserve everything and that the beta-gamma artisans who actually create things should just say thanks, bend over and pull apart the buns for easy targetting?
I'd say it's a wee bit of both.
I'd say it's a wee bit of both.
Norrin Radd
Vice Admiral
No objection, if he deserves it.
But he often comes across as a total asshole and this makes it very hard to sympathize with him.
While I respect his body of work, he has always been a total ass in person. I can't think of a con I went to where he didn't piss all over everyone and their brother.
I can handle a sarcastic sense of humor, but not raging anger, egomania, and utter disrespect for his own fans. He's like an evil Chihuahua that bites the hand that feeds him.
Well, he's claiming that he's not pissed, just annoyed that he had to hear about this the same way the rest of us did.
He posted a followup this evening, here, in which he says that his reaction is being overstated. Go have a look - I'm not going to quote the whole thing (I don't want to violate his copyright
), but it's the post timestamped 18:12:47 (I'm not sure if that's EST, PST, or some other time zone, but I suspect it's PST).Meh, I didn't get that from him, and I've met him once and talked to him on the phone twice. Sure, he called me a dwarf, but I was on my knees rummaging through my backpack at the time.
