Ellison is pissed

[Mr. Adventure]

"Ellison is pissed" is akin to "the sky is blue (or gray if you live in Michigan)".

 

[Franklin]

Starship Polaris said:

Franklin said:
IF true, I have a hard time swallowing the idea that Ellison would've gone this long without knowing. That is, I'd think SOMEONE would have at least leaked it to him long ago in story development.

Not so. People have been hired onto this film without seeing the script or knowing the story.

Well, that's true. But I was thinking that SOMEONE associated with Orci and Kurtzman could've tipped him off. Wouldn't have to, just thought someone could. "Harlan, did you know that...?"

Maybe they changed the name of the Guardian of Forever in the movie. Would that work? Maybe it's the Protector of Forever. Or the Guardian of Eternity. Or the Sentry of Infinity.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Franklin said:
Maybe they changed the name of the Guardian of Forever in the movie. Would that work? Maybe it's the Protector of Forever. Or the Guardian of Eternity. Or the Sentry of Infinity.

They're calling it "The Big 'O'."

 

[Ovation]

Starship Polaris said:

Franklin said:
Maybe they changed the name of the Guardian of Forever in the movie. Would that work? Maybe it's the Protector of Forever. Or the Guardian of Eternity. Or the Sentry of Infinity.

They're calling it "The Big 'O'."

Sorry. That one belongs to Montreal (though it does look like a spaceship).

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Starship Polaris said:

Franklin said:
Maybe they changed the name of the Guardian of Forever in the movie. Would that work? Maybe it's the Protector of Forever. Or the Guardian of Eternity. Or the Sentry of Infinity.

They're calling it "The Big 'O'."

Star Trek: The Story of O. .

Hmmm. And Jennifer Morrison and Winona Ryder are in it? Maybe this movie won't suck, afterall. That is, maybe it will suck, but in a good way...

EDITED to include url for those of us not up on our naughty books.

 

[Gen. Jack O'Neill]

Chappai'ai of time?

 

[Angel4576]

Brutal Strudel said:
Not strictly true? Elliosn's is one of the most revered names in literary SF, often mentioned in the same breath as Dick, Ballard and Vonnegut. He's one of the leaders of the New Wave and gave us two of SF's most important and influential anthologies, the Dangerous Visions books. His (extensive) tv work is a sideline.

I was being polite and not overstating my case

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Gee, how am I not surprised to see this thread so soon after today's rumors?

 

[Jon1701]

Surely he can't claim credit if they use THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER.

Ok, maaaaybe if they used Edith Keeler they might have to chuck him a few quid, but a plot device? I'll admit, I'm a little fuzzy on the full in's and out's of paying the writer's for previously used characters, although I understand the basics.

Does this occur in every instance?

Every time any character is reused the original creator of that character gets a paycheck? Surely the studio have safeguards in place. Where do you draw the line?

Is this a contractual thing? Is there a difference between staff and freelancers?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

jon1701 said:
Surely he can't claim credit if they use THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER.

Ok, maaaaybe if they used Edith Keeler they might have to chuck him a few quid, but a plot device? I'll admit, I'm a little fuzzy on the full in's and out's of paying the writer's for previously used characters, although I understand the basics.

Does this occur in every instance?

Every time any character is reused the original creator of that character gets a paycheck? Surely the studio have safeguards in place. Where do you draw the line?

Is this a contractual thing? Is there a difference between staff and freelancers?

I don't know how that all works, but they did name T'Pau T'Pol and used Paris instead of Locarno.

 

[HarryM]

Wow, Ellison invented the concept of time travel, amazing. And his concept was three old men on a hill, the "Guardians" (plural), IIRC, and not the familiar glowing donut. Ellison is great but he needs to give his antagonistic schtick a rest.

 

[chardman]

It's a plot device that engages in dialogue... ergo, it's as much a character as Edith Keeler.

 

[Jon1701]

Mr. Adventure said:

jon1701 said:
Surely he can't claim credit if they use THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER.

Ok, maaaaybe if they used Edith Keeler they might have to chuck him a few quid, but a plot device? I'll admit, I'm a little fuzzy on the full in's and out's of paying the writer's for previously used characters, although I understand the basics.

Does this occur in every instance?

Every time any character is reused the original creator of that character gets a paycheck? Surely the studio have safeguards in place. Where do you draw the line?

Is this a contractual thing? Is there a difference between staff and freelancers?

I don't know how that all works, but they did name T'Pau T'Pol and used Paris instead of Locarno.

Maybe T'pau, but not Paris. I know this one.

They came up with the character of Tom Paris, but no-one had nailed the role. They liked Robert Mcneill so much that they invited him to audition.

And he got the role.

In this instance, I'm pretty sure it didnt come into it.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

HarryM said:
Wow, Ellison invented the concept of time travel, amazing. And his concept was three old men on a hill, the "Guardians" (plural), IIRC, and not the familiar glowing donut. Ellison is great but he needs to give his antagonistic schtick a rest.

It's not schtick, it's contract law. If the brass in Hollywood weren't constantly trying to fuck the writers out of every niickel due them (and the disrespect afforded writers in Hollywood is legendary), they wouldn't be two weeks into a strike right now.

 

[Jon1701]

chardman said:
It's a plot device that engages in dialogue... ergo, it's as much a character as Edith Keeler.

Perhaps. But, where do you draw the line? The Enterprise Computer" (in its various incarnations) is a plot device that engages in dialogue.

Is the computer not a character?

 

[Sharr Khan]

jon1701 said:

chardman said:
It's a plot device that engages in dialogue... ergo, it's as much a character as Edith Keeler.

Perhaps. But, where do you draw the line? The Enterprise Computer" (in its various incarnations) is a plot device that engages in dialogue.

Is the computer not a character?

To be fair, the Guardian seems a great deal more aware then the Enterprise's computer - I'd even say its sapiant if anything its closer to Data or the Doctor. Perhaps superior to both? So yes its a "character".

Sharr

 

[Angel4576]

jon1701 said:

Mr. Adventure said:

jon1701 said:
Surely he can't claim credit if they use THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER.

Ok, maaaaybe if they used Edith Keeler they might have to chuck him a few quid, but a plot device? I'll admit, I'm a little fuzzy on the full in's and out's of paying the writer's for previously used characters, although I understand the basics.

Does this occur in every instance?

Every time any character is reused the original creator of that character gets a paycheck? Surely the studio have safeguards in place. Where do you draw the line?

Is this a contractual thing? Is there a difference between staff and freelancers?

I don't know how that all works, but they did name T'Pau T'Pol and used Paris instead of Locarno.

Maybe T'pau, but not Paris. I know this one.

They came up with the character of Tom Paris, but no-one had nailed the role. They liked Robert Mcneill so much that they invited him to audition.

And he got the role.

In this instance, I'm pretty sure it didnt come into it.

Not my understanding of the Paris/Locarno situation;

The character of Tom Paris was a last-minute creation. Originally, Nicholas Locarno, (also played by 'McNeill Robert Duncan',) a Starfleet Academy cadet who had been expelled in the episode "The First Duty" of "Star Trek: The Next Generation" (1987), was to have been the person that Captain Janeway released from prison to help track down the Maquis ship. However, using Locarno in "Star Trek: Voyager" (1995) would mean the producers would have to pay royalties to Ronald D. Moore and Naren Shankar (the writers of "The First Duty") every time Locarno appeared in an episode. Rather than do that, the producers created the character of Tom Paris, who shares a similar back story as Nick Locarno (both had been cashiered out of Starfleet having caused the death of another officer).

That was based on an answer provided by Robbie Duncan McNeil in an interview shortly after Voyager started.

 

[scotthm]

Brutal Strudel said:
Ellison has money coming to him... Why is that so hard to grasp or sypathize with?

It's not hard to grasp, but it is difficult to sympathize with.

I personally don't see much difference between a writer and an architect, but I don't know of any architects collecting royalties on the use of their buildings, even though the owners are often collecting big rents.

---------------

 

[sturmde]

Heh, would have been simple to have Tom Paris *be* Nick Locarno.... and explain it as he was using his middle name and mother's maiden name to avoid any favoritism from being the son of a major Admiral, but not do it until the last episode of Voyager.

Not unlike what was done in Down Periscope with the Admiral's son. (Which reminds me.... Captain Morgan Bateson and the Reliant.... that would have been a series to watch....)

All in all though, the T'Pol/T'Pau and Locarno/Paris issues really show how The Suits manage to stick it to The Writers and WGA day in and day out...

 

[TerriO]

apostle83 said:
No, he wouldn't deserve anything, imo.

If the contract says yes, the contract says yes.

And unless you're privy to the details of the contract, kinda hard to speak definitively on the subject, isn't it?

And before you decide to throw back at me that I can't possibly know the details of his contract? I don't. None of the posters on this board can possibly know the exact specifics of Harlan's contract. However, I have seen the consequences of this same issue elsewhere, and I've known Harlan long enough to have no reason to doubt the legitimacy of the claim he's making here.