ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

Discussion in 'TV & Media' started by Allyn Gibson, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. Aragorn

    Aragorn Admiral Admiral

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    Well that latest episode had two things happen that I expected to happen, and both were disappointments. :(
     
  2. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The whole bit with Sherlock's secret identity intrigued me. Yes, it's the kind of thing Holmes does in the Canon (see "The Adventure of Charles Augustus Milverton" for the prime example), but what I thought of first was Batman's various non-Bruce Wayne identities, like underworld figure Matches Malone.

    I admit I was wrong. Last week I said that I didn't think Odin had that family killed, and he did. The reason i thought that way was that there are things that data cannot predict, and since I've been working my way back through season one the conversation Sherlock and Sebastian Moran have in "M" stuck with my mind about how people are, in large measure, predictable. (Sherlock, of course, asserts that he is not.)

    Morland's fate I expected going in, for purely meta reasons (the show is winding down), and I felt the episode did enough to justify it, and framing it as part of a clash between old power and new power worked for me. Morland tried to play the Game of Thrones, only he played the game as he knew it, not as it really was, and paid the ultimate price.

    Lucy Liu's direction was good. The scene in front of the fireplace was a particular standout.

    Jonny Lee Miller's performance was good, though occasionally I felt like he was channeling some Matt Smith as the Doctor when he was channeling Patrick Troughton, and that felt a little weird to me. The final scene in the brownstone didn't quite work for me; none of the reactions from Sherlock, Joan, and Marcus' felt right for that moment.
     
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  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I was leaning toward it being staged by Odin, because it was just too convenient and heavy-handed a way to make his point, and I'd prefer that heavy-handedness to be on the part of the villain in the story rather than the writers of the story.

    And here we see the slippery slope of Odin's "Killing some people will save others" philosophy. Once he accepts that as a valid thesis, it's a short hop from killing imminent murderers to killing inconvenient innocents. Ultimately it's all just about his power trip, his desire to be the one who gets to decide who lives and who dies.


    I didn't expect it ahead of time, but once Sherlock and Morland had that scene where Morland assured his son that all his loved ones were being protected, I thought "Uh-oh" and realized that he'd just tempted the gods of irony. The fact that he and Sherlock had a warm moment of reconciliation in that scene further convinced me that his fate was sealed.


    I didn't notice that, but I noticed her unusually intense acting when she confronted the schoolteacher/hitwoman. We don't see Joan get angry very often.


    What is the right way to react in a situation like that? I think uncertainty and awkwardness are realistic in such a context, especially given the complicated relationship between father and son.
     
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  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Of course -- I should've known that an episode called "Reichenbach Falls" would climax with Sherlock confronting his archnemesis over a body of water and faking his death. I'm sure anyone familiar with the canon could've seen what really happened as immediately as I did (I'm actually writing this paragraph during the commercial before the final act, because that's how confident I am about what really happened). Nice that Holmes looped Watson into the plan in this version.

    (10 minutes later) Yup, of course. And I guess next week pretty much has to be the series finale, since Holmes has to stay "dead" in order for Odin to be put away. I guess that's a decent way to end things. Although I wonder what's left to fill the final hour. The so-called "scenes from our next episode" preview was entirely scenes from some of the previous 153 episodes instead. I would guess maybe a flashforward. And apparently a TV news interview with Watson will be involved. As a frame, maybe?
     
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  5. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Over the weekend on Facebook I wrote that the thing I did not want from the series was for the Reichenbach problem to see solved the way the other Sherlock solved the Magnusson problem -- with a bullet to the face. And, for about ten seconds, I really thought that was how it was going to go. Then when we cut to the squad car and a body hit the water, I went, "Oh, Sherlock has a plan." And yes, I'm pretty sure Joan is in on it. And I'm also sure that Everyone faked a text from Reichenbach that corresponds with the story Gregson told Reichenbach -- that it was Reichenbach who lured Sherlock to the bridge.

    I figure there will be some sort of time jump. Sherlock has to stay dead long enough for Reichenbach to be convicted of one crime or another, for the legal discovery process that Gregson talked about to happen. I figure that McNally and the NSA will flip to wash their hands of Reichenbach, too, and that will bury him even more. I don't know if Sherlock will actually reemerge as Sherlock; he could walk away from his old life entirely and start again, and the use of "Altamont" in the final scene in Florence was a nice touch, as that was Sherlock Holmes' identity in "His Last Bow."

    So, time jump, frame story (maybe Joan being interviewed about the fall of Reichenbach?), yeah. I expect we'll see that Marcus has moved on to the Marshals, maybe Gregson gets a promotion after closing the biggest case in his career.

    I think next week will largely be an epilogue and, based on the title ("Their Last Bow"), maybe there will be a nominal case that involves a German spy named Von Bork. :)
     
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  6. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yup. Once the story's perspective shifted to the witnesses, that meant it was important that there were witnesses, and that clued us in that the scene was being staged for their benefit.

    Which is a bit ironic, because it's the fact that there were no witnesses to Holmes's death in "The Final Problem" that made it easy to retcon it away in "The Empty House." (And I still believe Doyle did it that way on purpose. He may have wanted to walk away from the character, but he probably left himself a back door just in case someone paid him enough to change his mind.)


    She has to be. If Holmes had wanted Watson to think he really intended to kill Odin, he wouldn't have come out and told her as much; he would've put on an act of trying to avoid telling her and let her put the pieces together, because that would've been more in character. Also, if what we were led to believe was really true, they wouldn't have hidden the part between "We have to plan a murder of our own" and Joan going to Marcus with her worries. They left that part unshown because they wanted us to assume that Holmes meant to kill Odin, so naturally that's not what really happened.

    The fact that Joan avoided meeting Marcus's eyes in their scene afterward was also a giveaway that she was hiding the truth from him.


    I would've expected "Sigerson." Did he use that alias in Elementary already?
     
  7. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't remember this, but he did in "The Female of the Species" in the third season. That episode is notable as the first episode Lucy Liu directed and also the last time Natalie Dormer appeared (albeit via a voice cameo). Ironically, I was thinking about that episode this morning while driving into work. Jamie orchestrates the murder of a woman in prison who was trying to murder Joan in that episode, and my morning musing was this -- What if Jamie believes that Reichenbach really did murder Sherlock so she orchestrates a hit? That would, in a sense, fulfill the mention of her in the CBS synopsis of "Their Last Vow" without actually requiring Dormer.
     
  8. Serial thread killer

    Serial thread killer Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    When Sherlock was talking to Joan, I did think he was working to kill Reichenbach, but when he and Reichenbach got talking on the bridge I thought Sherlock was up to something, because he's smart enough to know if you are going to shoot someone you get on with it and don't stand around for a chat:lol:
     
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  9. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    I would agree for the most part. However, I think Reichenbach was right - Holmes is no killer - I believe he had designs to fake his own demise from the beginning, pinning it on him. Sherlock just told Joan that he was planning to kill Reichenbach so that her appeal to the police would be genuinely convincing. Now that he's the "last Holmes", he's inherited a vast fortune (possibly in the billions of Euros) and even more importantly, connections into his father's dark network. He probably spent most of his remaining time stateside moving money around and prepping the logistics of his permanent disappearance. He can likely move around with impunity, undetected, for the rest of his life with those kinds of resources at hand.
     
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  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    No, that's just what we were supposed to think. I'm certain that he told Joan that he planned to fake his own death at Reichenbach's hands, and she was in on it, telling that story to Marcus to help set it up and ensure that there were police witnesses on hand for his apparent demise. Sherlock and Joan must have coordinated their efforts to make sure the police arrived on the scene just in time to see the shot. That's the only way it could've worked -- the cops had to be there at the moment it happened in order to catch Odin red-handed, with no chance he could weasel out of it. Sherlock could never have made the timing work that precisely if Joan wasn't in on it.

    Besides, it would be a terrible way to end the series by having Holmes gaslight Watson that way, to treat her as a mere pawn rather than a full equal and trusted partner. They've been through too much, reaffirmed their bond too many times. Plus she's too good a detective and she knows him better than anyone -- she'd never be fooled.
     
  11. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    We will hopefully have that explained next week. There really is no evidence either way to make a solid determination how Watson was involved (or not). Anything else is mere speculation.
     
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  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    No, it's deduction. It's missing the point of the entire Sherlock Holmes franchise -- indeed, the entire mystery genre -- to dismiss logical deduction as no better than guesswork.

    I led you through my chain of reasoning. As I said, if Watson wasn't involved, then they would've had to arrive on the scene at that moment by pure chance, and Holmes would never have based his plan on chance. The only possible way it could've worked is if he knew the police would be watching at the moment he fell off the bridge, and the only way he could've timed it that perfectly is if Watson was colluding with him to make sure they arrived at the right moment.

    Besides, his very choice of words gives it away. "We have to plan a murder of our own." If Holmes had wanted Watson to believe he really planned to kill Reichenbach, he never would've tried to make her think he wanted her help in arranging it. Remember, just last season, Holmes confessed to a murder he didn't commit in order to clear Watson of a murder charge. If he'd go to that length to keep her safe, there is no way he'd ever deliberately try to involve her in a murder, and she knows it. So if he wanted to fool her, he'd know better than to pretend he wanted her help in a murder. She'd never fall for that, because it's grossly and obviously out of character. If he'd wanted to make her think he planned on murder, he would've insisted on leaving her out of it. Indeed, he wouldn't have told her at all, but would've made it look as if he were planning it secretly, dropping clues that she could put together.

    So the fact that he said "We have to plan a murder" leaves only one possible interpretation -- that he brought her into the loop from the beginning and was talking about planning his own apparent murder, with her help.
     
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  13. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    No. It’s speculation. Nothing more.
     
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  14. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What happened on screen is evidence that Sherlock not only planned his own murder, but Joan was in on it. On the former, it's more or less conclusive, as to whether it leads to a solid determination on the latter it may depend on how much you trust the writing team not to put out a storyline that wouldn't make any goddamn sense.

    The notion that Sherlock lied to Joan about his intent and/or the time when the meeting was taking place, anticipating exactly what she would do and exactly when the police would arrive, is too far fetched to be considered seriously, veering into the absurd. It's near-impossible to pull off, and near certain to fall apart. That may be something that the writers could conceivably overlook, given that it's still too tightly timed anyway. But it would also imply Sherlock doesn't trust Watson with her plan, yet he trusts her enough to tell her he's murdering somebody, knowing she wouldn't tell anybody he hold her that, but would still call the police on him. That set up is too insane for this TV show, and sounds profoundly silly written down.

    Mind you, the rest of the season established the trust between Joan and Sherlock well.
     
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  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Not necessarily. I'd guess that Sherlock and Joan were coordinating via text messages so that Sherlock would know how long he needed to stall Odin. Maybe he had his phone on vibrate in his pocket so he could get the cues from her.
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Argh, my local station is pre-empting the finale for football! Apparently they're showing it in the wee hours Saturday morning. I'll just have to steer clear of this thread for a couple more days.

    I mean, really, ordinary sports delays/pre-emptions are bad enough, but the finale? That's just rude.
     
  17. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    CBS streams Elementary (for free, though with commercials) on the CBS website. A couple of weeks ago I was unable to watch an episode, so I watched it Friday morning. No need to wait until Saturday. :)
     
  18. Caretaker

    Caretaker Commodore Premium Member

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    Well, I'm not versed in the Holmes canon, so I can't speak to the finale in that regard.

    I enjoyed the finale, though it still left me wanting more of this incarnation of Holmes and Watson. Not sure if I enjoyed the big fakeout on the writers part in the latter part of the episode - I was worried my poor heart wouldn't take what the writers were dishing out. But enjoyed the last few minutes having the theme song played (non-diegetic). It was really more about the characters than the murder/mystery of the week.

    I do see thought this episodes was full pace and for story reasons I see why they used earlier episodes to say goodbye to some characters who would have needed to be shoehorned into the finale.
     
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  19. Enterprise is Great

    Enterprise is Great Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm glad they didn't do one of those endings where they blow everything up and the characters scatter in different directions and someone dies
     
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  20. Claudia

    Claudia Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I liked the finale, everybody found their place in the end (and I have to say I did have tears in my eyes when Sherlock confronted Joan, such a genuine platonic love and Miller and Liu portrayed that beautifully... and I loved the "wig" right at the end), Moriarty's still out there, so no worries that they'll get bored. ;)

    This season was a bit soso for me. Reichenbach didn't work out for me, the scene on the bridge was weak (Reichenbach claims to have wrestled the gun out of Sherlock's hands... so why exactly did he have to shoot him, Sherlock was unarmed by that point), and the claim that the whole enterprise just falls apart in the investigation... don't know - but OTOH I'm happy he was dealt with and the finale was this character-driven farewell-piece that we got. Sherlock galivanting about New York while still being officially "dead" and believing no one observes Joan was a bit of a ridiculous notion, though.

    Anyway, really liked this show and I'll miss it - but I'm happy it got a scripted ending.
     
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