ELEMENTARY - News, Reviews, and Discussion

[Sean_McCormick]

Vikner seems to be a "classic" Moriarty in all but name, is he not? Since that name is already taken , it makes sense to give him a new one.

[Edit to add:] I actually entertain the theory, that in the season finale the show will visit the Reichenbach falls ... or more likely the Niagara falls.

 

[Christopher]

Vikner seems to be a "classic" Moriarty in all but name, is he not? Since that name is already taken , it makes sense to give him a new one.

Yeah, but Moriarty is not the sine qua non of Holmes villainy in the canon, just in adaptations. Moriarty was in two out of sixty stories, and he never even appeared "onscreen" in them, since Watson never met the man. I like how the show has incorporated a lot of characters from the canon -- not just the stock characters everyone knows like Moriarty and Irene and Lestrade and Henry Baskerville, but others like Gregson and Moran and Milverton and Kitty Winter and Gruner. I was hoping for another deep continuity cut. (Although Sherlock deducing Vikner's connection to Moriarty based on a painting does seem to be loosely inspired by a bit from The Valley of Fear.)

Honestly, I was disappointed when the show disposed of Milverton in one episode. He would've been a good candidate for a recurring big bad, a master blackmailer whom Holmes comes to loathe as much as any foe he's ever faced. They could've done like they did with Kitty and Gruner, done a seasonal arc that would've climaxed with a plot based on the events of the original story. (Sherlock built its third-season finale around a version of Milverton who was renamed for some reason -- and for that show, one episode is a third of a season -- but I didn't like the way it ended.)

 

[Sean_McCormick]

You are right of course, but it seems to me, that the plan for this season finale is to adapt The Final Problem in some shape or form. The cliffhanger of The Invisible Hand has already started that path. So they felt, i guess, that a Moriarty was needed and since they already had adapted Moriarty and send her on a different path, they needed a stand-in.

 

[Christopher]

^Well, yes, I already said that they probably would've had Moriarty herself in the story if Natalie Dormer's schedule had permitted. Of course Vikner is a substitute for Moriarty. I'm just saying I wish they could've found a canon character to function as that stand-in rather than some totally new guy. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if the canon ever established any allies or associates for Moriarty other than Sebastian Moran, and they've already used him.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

^Well, yes, I already said that they probably would've had Moriarty herself in the story if Natalie Dormer's schedule had permitted. Of course Vikner is a substitute for Moriarty. I'm just saying I wish they could've found a canon character to function as that stand-in rather than some totally new guy. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if the canon ever established any allies or associates for Moriarty other than Sebastian Moran, and they've already used him.

Moriarty had a brother, though there was no indication he was a criminal. It would have been interesting if Vikner had been written as Dormeriarty's brother (and I suppose he still could be if they wanted to, but it's not likely).

The stories give contradictory indications about Moriarty's family. In his first appearance in "The Final Problem", Moriarty is referred to as "Professor Moriarty" — no forename is mentioned. Watson does, however, refer to the name of another family member when he writes of "the recent letters in which Colonel James Moriarty defends the memory of his brother". In "The Adventure of the Empty House", Holmes refers to Moriarty on one occasion as "Professor James Moriarty". This is the only time Moriarty is given a first name, and oddly, it is the same as that of his purported brother; to wit The Valley of Fear (written after the preceding two stories, but set earlier), Holmes says of Professor Moriarty: "He is unmarried. His younger brother is a station master in the west of England."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Moriarty

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Moriarty had a brother, though there was no indication he was a criminal. It would have been interesting if Vikner had been written as Dormeriarty's brother (and I suppose he still could be if they wanted to, but it's not likely).

The stories give contradictory indications about Moriarty's family. In his first appearance in "The Final Problem", Moriarty is referred to as "Professor Moriarty" — no forename is mentioned. Watson does, however, refer to the name of another family member when he writes of "the recent letters in which Colonel James Moriarty defends the memory of his brother". In "The Adventure of the Empty House", Holmes refers to Moriarty on one occasion as "Professor James Moriarty". This is the only time Moriarty is given a first name, and oddly, it is the same as that of his purported brother; to wit The Valley of Fear (written after the preceding two stories, but set earlier), Holmes says of Professor Moriarty: "He is unmarried. His younger brother is a station master in the west of England."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Moriarty

Most Holmesians consider "Colonel James Moriarty" and "a station master in the west of England" to be two different Moriartys. The Colonel is either older than the professor or he's the youngest Moriarty brother based on Holmes' phrasing.

 

[Christopher]

Most Holmesians consider "Colonel James Moriarty" and "a station master in the west of England" to be two different Moriartys. The Colonel is either older than the professor or he's the youngest Moriarty brother based on Holmes' phrasing.

Given that the canonical stories are Watson's admittedly dramatized accounts in The Strand, couldn't it simply be that Watson changed the names to protect the innocent (and guilty), and that Watson, like Doyle, forgot which "Moriarty" he'd assigned the first name "James" to?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Given that the canonical stories are Watson's admittedly dramatized accounts in The Strand, couldn't it simply be that Watson changed the names to protect the innocent (and guilty), and that Watson, like Doyle, forgot which "Moriarty" he'd assigned the first name "James" to?

That's certainly possible. Watson was a sloppy writer; he notoriously has his wife call him "James" in "The Man with the Twisted Lip." You'd think Watson would know what his own first name was.

There's also the theory that all the Moriarty brothers -- the Professor, the Colonel, and the Station Master -- are named James.

 

[Christopher]

That's certainly possible. Watson was a sloppy writer; he notoriously has his wife call him "James" in "The Man with the Twisted Lip." You'd think Watson would know what his own first name was.

Maybe he was getting back at his wife for calling out a former lover's name in the heat of passion...

There's also the theory that all the Moriarty brothers -- the Professor, the Colonel, and the Station Master -- are named James.

Didn't boxer George Foreman name all his sons George?

 

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Most of them, looks like, but all half-siblings from different mothers. According to IMDB he was married 5 times. He has at least one daughter named Georgetta!

Anson Mount (IV), of Hell on Wheels fame, also has a half-brother named Anson Adams Mount III.

It really must get confusing to whom people are talking at family reunions.

 

[Christopher]

It really must get confusing to whom people are talking at family reunions.

My family has a lot of cousins with the same names -- two Christophers, two Kathleens, two Cynthias, etc. -- but no siblings with the same name. It can still be confusing, though.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Is anyone still watching Elementary? Besides me?

Last night, Kitty Winter returned to New York. The people involved in a case that she and Sherlock solved (offstage) between seasons 2 and 3 have begun to die, and Kitty suspects that she and Sherlock are potential targets of a serial killer. Two years after fleeing New York (following her attack on Del Gruner), Kitty seems to be well-adjusted, even happy, but Joan suspects that there's something up with Kitty, leading her to an unexpected discovery -- Kitty has a son who's about six to nine months old (he's teething).

As the first part of a two-parter, this was decent. A lot of the episode is misdirection, and the surprise at the end -- Sherlock coming face-to-face with his suspect -- was an "Oh, shit" moment. I thought they glossed over Kitty's departure -- rather the implications of it -- a bit too conveniently; Joan kept referencing it, asking the questions the audience would, I suppose, but no one else really seemed to care. The repeated references to Morland were a nice touch. And Sherlock's reaction to being introduced to Archie, Kitty's son, was not wholly unexpected.

With his hair buzzed off, it's striking how much Jonny Lee Miller resembles like the classic Sidney Paget Holmes.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I'm watching - great episode! Although I don't think DIA would be quite so...un-subtle about breaking into someone's home like that, in broad daylight...with military support, no less. I honestly didn't think they would have the jurisdiction. All such investigations would need to be done at the behest of the FBI, who would also have an "agent in charge" to speak with Holms on-site. Having the DIA guy be the front-man for this is a bit of a stretch, especially if it looks like he's going a little rogue. The Feds wouldn't have anything to do with that...conventionally speaking, anyway. Unconventionally, getting 2 agencies and the DOD/Pentagon on the same page for something like that? BIG stretch. They're not that organized. And they really don't like sharing.

 

[Christopher]

Is there actually a DIA? It sounded like one of those fake agency names made up for TV.

Always nice to see Ophelia Lovibond. I agree they glossed over Kitty's crime too easily in order to bring her back, but I'm still glad she's back. Now if only they could get Moriarty back.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Is there actually a DIA? It sounded like one of those fake agency names made up for TV.

The Defense Intelligence Agency specializes in intelligence gathering on military issues. It reports to the Secretary of Defense, but it's largely a civilian organization.

 

[Christopher]

Just think... if Supergirl had stayed on CBS, we might've had Sherlock investigating an agent of the DEO instead!

 

[sojourner]

With his hair buzzed off, it's striking how much Jonny Lee Miller resembles like the classic Sidney Paget Holmes.

Funny, I thought the haircut made him look like Quentin Lance over on Arrow.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Just think... if Supergirl had stayed on CBS, we might've had Sherlock investigating an agent of the DEO instead!

While I wouldn't have minded a crossover with Supergirl (for fun last year, I plotted out one for a potential spec script -- Intergang kidnapped Morland Holmes in National City, and Sherlock and Joan had to investigate), there are CBS series I'd rather have seen Elementary cross over with, like Person of Interest or, just for fun, Hawaii Five-O.

 

[Snaploud]

In real life, the DIA has zero law enforcement authority, but that's a common enough mistake on tv.

As for my still watching the show: it's one of my favorite shows producing new episodes, and it is nice to see Kitty back.

 

[Christopher]

...there are CBS series I'd rather have seen Elementary cross over with, like Person of Interest or, just for fun, Hawaii Five-O.

I would've loved to see a meeting of minds between Sherlock Holmes and Harold Finch.

In real life, the DIA has zero law enforcement authority, but that's a common enough mistake on tv.

Ditto for Homeland Security. TV portrays it as an FBI-type agency with field agents, but it's more a cabinet-level bureaucracy for coordinating the efforts of actual law-enforcement and security agencies. I think Interpol is another example -- routinely portrayed as an international police with officers/agents who investigate and make arrests, but actually just a clearing house for sharing information among different nations' law enforcement agencies.