Elementary Dear Data - The Holographic Paper - Bad internal logic or deep plotting?

[parsonsm]

I've started yet another rewatch of TNG.

Into Season 2 and one of my favourite episodes 'Elementary Dear Data.'

Now, I know that early holodeck (and perhaps later ones too) were a bit of a mess om their internal logic and consistency but were the writers actually being clever, or just stupid?

Moriarty draws an image of the Enterprise on paper, which Data then takes out (and quite far away from) the holodeck before showing to Geordi.

The paper should dematerialise/vanish/whatever the correct terminology is the moment the paper passes the arch.

Did the writers just stupidly miss this? They do after all inform Moriarty he cannot leave.

Or was it done on purpose to suggest that maybe, just maybe, Moriarty could leave?

Of course i don't imagine 'I think, there I am' applies to a piece of paper.

 

[parsonsm]

If someone knows how to edit the title to Data from 'Date' please do so, or let me know how to do it.

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

If someone knows how to edit the title to Data from 'Date' please do so, or let me know how to do it.

I know how, I know how!

 

[Summer Solstice]

It depends on how exactly the holodeck works. If it replicates all inanimate objects and destroys them when the holodeck program is finished, then it's possible to take the paper out of the holodeck.

I love "Elementary Dear Data". Moriarty is probably the least threatening version of Moriarty in any version of Sherlock Holmes.

 

[parsonsm]

I know how, I know how!

Thanks.

 

[Ragitsu]

I figure that the holodeck includes a matter replicator system that is context-sensitive; if you're at a recreation of a Texas steakhouse circa 1989, you can order some ribeye and it will be actual tangible beef.

 

[JesterFace]

Holodeck must have a replicator for some things because if you eat or drink something on the holodeck, will you become hungry or thirsty again after leaving the holodeck?

 

[Ragitsu]

 

[Oddish]

I figure that the holodeck includes a matter replicator system that is context-sensitive; if you're at a recreation of a Texas steakhouse circa 1989, you can order some ribeye and it will be actual tangible beef.

Makes sense.

 

[at Quark's]

A theory that I have heard before. It would make the experience more real for the holodeck user, if they can actually interact with objects in a natural way.

Also explains why Wesley stepped out of the holodeck dripping wet after he fell in a pool.

Even so, the computer would need to be pretty smart to know what to expect and what not to expect from the holodeck user, because we rarely see it go wrong, though sometimes the computer apparently is surprised by unexpected actions. For example, when Data threw his commbadge towards the reaction chamber in Ship in a Bottle, revealing it to be a simulation.

 

[Ragitsu]

Holodeck safeties would still be functioning: a steak knife would pass right through your hand (literally) and you could firmly plant that same hand on a nearby grill to no ill effect. Hm...what about choking hazards? Keep the peanut bowl away?

 

[Tosk]

The holodeck has been using a combination of holography and replication ever since the very first time we see it. Data says that "much of it is real, sir" and also picks up a rock and throws it at the nearby wall. The wall has a brief interference effect but the rock does not.

 

[Christopher]

IIRC, the intent of the script was that the paper surviving outside the holodeck was a clue that Picard was lying to Moriarty, but that was cut from the final episode and thus it doesn't count. Anyway, that episode's technobabble about "holodeck matter" was gibberish, because it had already been established in the behind-the-scenes materials that holodecks used shaped forcefields to give solidity to light projections, so there's no "matter" of any kind except for replicated props. That was a case where the producers decided to override the tech advisors for the sake of the story, although I don't think it was the right choice, given that plenty of later stories in Voyager did just fine defining holograms as "photons and force fields."

 

[parsonsm]

IIRC, the intent of the script was that the paper surviving outside the holodeck was a clue that Picard was lying to Moriarty, but that was cut from the final episode and thus it doesn't count. Anyway, that episode's technobabble about "holodeck matter" was gibberish, because it had already been established in the behind-the-scenes materials that holodecks used shaped forcefields to give solidity to light projections, so there's no "matter" of any kind except for replicated props. That was a case where the producers decided to override the tech advisors for the sake of the story, although I don't think it was the right choice, given that plenty of later stories in Voyager did just fine defining holograms as "photons and force fields."

Thanks Christopher.
Its good to hear that these things were being considered when the 'rules' of the holodeck were being created.

I suppose if Voyagers Doctors mobile emitter is ever replicated it would cause chaos!

Moriarty, and anyone from the database could essentially be given 'life' or at least as much life as The Doctor was believed to have the right to claim by Janeway et al.

 

[Christopher]

I suppose if Voyagers Doctors mobile emitter is ever replicated it would cause chaos!

Moriarty, and anyone from the database could essentially be given 'life' or at least as much life as The Doctor was believed to have the right to claim by Janeway et al.

These issues are actually touched on in the recent Lower Decks comics miniseries written by Ryan North (The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl).

Spoiler: LD comic

It's established that holodecks had safeguards installed after the Moriarty incident to prevent sentience generation. And once eldritch alien energies and coincidence end up subverting those safeguards, the Lower Deckers are able to remove one of the holodeck's diodes and connect it to a large battery to create a barely portable mobile emitter.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Part of the holodeck's customizable settings may include the option to take certain created/altered objects from the deck with you, such as paper you've written on. This would be useful if, say, someone was taking painting or cooking lessons from a holoprogram and wanted to bring their work with them, despite not having replicated/acquired the canvas and paints prior to entering. Or if you want a tangible memento of your recent gameplay, such as a note/drawing done during the program.

 

[Visitor1982]

One of the reasons why the ending was cut was because Dr. Pulaski accused Picard of lying and Roddenberry felt the captain would never lie...

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Not even as a tactical calculated bluff?

Certainly not to someone with whom he shared mutual trust, for no good reason. But why not lie to a malevolent hologram that means you harm?

Kirk would've lied. Spock would've lied (even though Vulcans don't) and he's related to either Holmes or Doyle.

 

[Ragitsu]

Spock would've lied (even though Vulcans don't)

To be fair, Spock is only half-Vulcan; he has an escape clause!

 

[Christopher]

"Vulcans don't lie" is itself an obvious lie. Sure, they prefer to be factually accurate, but they're entirely capable of deception when it suits them. They lie every time they claim they lack emotion, rather than simply regulating it.

I mean, the idea started with Spock telling Commodore Decker "Vulcans never bluff," but that was a calculated statement to intimidate Decker into backing down, so it can't be presumed to be objective. And Spock certainly engaged in a number of his own bluffs -- "Hours will seem like days," anyone?