Perhaps the Federation shouldn't get involved in the slave trade? Stay out of it. Honour the PD for once.
I suspect Elaan is going to stab her new husband on her wedding night. I wonder how interplanetary relationships will go then?
Elaan of Troyius - Mess of an episode
- Thread starter Terran_Empire
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Perhaps the Federation shouldn't get involved in the slave trade? Stay out of it. Honour the PD for once.
I suspect Elaan is going to stab her new husband on her wedding night. I wonder how interplanetary relationships will go then?
I suspect her husband will be "stabbing" Elaan on her wedding night, but probably not in the way you meant.
My impression is that they don't. Captain Pike even contemplated leaving Starfleet and becoming a slave trader, so apparently it isn't that badly thought of. Harry Mudd was engaged in Human trafficking, but that was never mentioned as "wrong."
Was there ever a episode where Starfleet interfered with slavery?
The Prime Directive could very well be the reason for that, slavery being something that a society as to work through on their own. In ENT, there was a slave market on a planet within spitting distance of Earth, in the 23rd/24th centuries is the market still there on Earth's doorstep?
The Orions are physically close to the Federation, either neighbors or their star systems are actually inter-mixed, and the Orions have slavery.
The Son'a have two entire slave planets and the Federation once had a business arrangement with them. So the Federation is willing to co-operate with slavers.
Umm, I don't think this ever happened. Pike becoming a slave trader was the subject of a joke, and the nature of that joke might well establish slave trade as the most disreputable pursuit in the Star Trek universe. Later on, Pike becoming a slave trader was the subject of a fantasy, and this might further reinforce the idea that people suspected of being related to somebody who looks like a slave trader are shot at sight.
Moreover, it's far from said that being a nasty slave trader was Pike's own fantasy; considering the circumstances, it might have been the opposite of Pike's natural fantasies.
The Federation is willing to co-operate with people who launch weapons of mass destruction at them, as long as the bottom line works out. Such deals tend to be pretty clandestine, though: there was massive fuss about the Son'a deal going public, and indeed that's what the plot of that particular adventure was all about.
Timo Saloniemi
There must have been some other perceived benefit in offering out Uhura's quarters. Where those Uhura's clothes (and breakable objects) still in the cabin? It does seem so, and so maybe it was felt that the interior decorations would pacify the Dohlman.This oddity is mainly a plot hole, since the Enteprise seens to always have avalaible quarters in TOS...and all quarters seems to have the same size. And frankly, you're condescending and infantilizing toward Uhura by calling her quarters girly.The Uhura character is an ELEGANT WOMAN, not a girl.
The other feature that may be unique to Uhura's quarters are the washing facilities. EOT is one of those rare episodes where the cabin set's small side door is actually used - and in this case not just used, but Elaan actually locks herself in on the other side! Based on how friendly Uhura was with Bobby the Technician in The Man Trap, it would come as no surprise that she had managed to get an entire luxury ensuite built, complete with steam room and jacuzzi.
Now THAT would be something to show off to visiting royalty!
Since the reuse of a single set of, uh, sets dictates that quarters aboard Kirk's ship be more or less identical and generic, we could also just as well argue that it's all down to location.
Supposedly, the ship's official guest quarters are on Deck 2, as per "The Enterprise Incident". But that might come with a location handicap: the superstructure of the ship is somewhat cramped, and proximity to things that a visiting Admiral would find useful (briefing rooms, communications nodes, quarters of other top officers) might be intolerable to a visiting royal teenage brat.
OTOH, if Uhura has had her choice of location from the pool of junior officer quarters, she might be located close to entertainment facilities, in a spot where her aural sensibilities aren't offended by GNDN pipe gurgling, etc.
Timo Saloniemi
Supposedly, the ship's official guest quarters are on Deck 2, as per "The Enterprise Incident". But that might come with a location handicap: the superstructure of the ship is somewhat cramped, and proximity to things that a visiting Admiral would find useful (briefing rooms, communications nodes, quarters of other top officers) might be intolerable to a visiting royal teenage brat.
OTOH, if Uhura has had her choice of location from the pool of junior officer quarters, she might be located close to entertainment facilities, in a spot where her aural sensibilities aren't offended by GNDN pipe gurgling, etc.
Timo Saloniemi
I'd prefer to think that the Federation wouldn't accept worlds as members who had things like slavery, being sacrifice, pedophilia, etc.My impression is that they don't. Captain Pike even contemplated leaving Starfleet and becoming a slave trader, so apparently it isn't that badly thought of. Harry Mudd was engaged in Human trafficking, but that was never mentioned as "wrong."
Was there ever a episode where Starfleet interfered with slavery?
The Prime Directive could very well be the reason for that, slavery being something that a society as to work through on their own. In ENT, there was a slave market on a planet within spitting distance of Earth, in the 23rd/24th centuries is the market still there on Earth's doorstep?
The Orions are physically close to the Federation, either neighbors or their star systems are actually inter-mixed, and the Orions have slavery.
The Son'a have two entire slave planets and the Federation once had a business arrangement with them. So the Federation is willing to co-operate with slavers.
I like this episode myself! I mean we have the frustrating negotiating with the Elasians and the prim and proper blue skinned Troyans going on aboard the ship whilst outside that sensor ghost turns out to be a klingon warship! And our very first glimpse of one if viewed in production order anyways!
JB
JB
Maybe/maybe not. Might depend on what else the potential member would bring to the Federation.
What if it was concensual? It would it be okay then.
Could the Ocampa become Members? If so then it would simply be a matter of a society setting their age of majority low.
He really didn't seem to be in a joking mood.
And even Dr. Boyce referred to Orion females as "animal women."
You mean like Earth? What about worlds who have imperialistic highly weaponized battle cruiser fleets posing as scientific exploration vessels?
While it's certainly not a top ten episode, I think it's a fun adventure.
I also do not think the feminist concerns are particularly applicable. As others have said, she's not just some poor girl scooped up off the street and shoved into this position. She's clearly part of some kind of a royal hierarchy who have traditions of all manner. Things that *must* be done because you hold this position.
Is it fair, or what she wants to do? No, but I think, just as Kirk himself has faced, sometimes your duty does not permit you to do what you want to do. Mostly, for the good of a great many others.
This is when certain kinds of feminism end up inadvertently going too far. Fighting phantoms. As was pointed out in another thread, it's actually a good thing some of the insane captains/commodores/admirals were not female in TOS, because, even if you didn't change a single line of dialogue, they might still be construed by certain modern feminists as an example of the "blatant sexism" in TOS. Just imagine if, otherwise unchanged, Matt Decker was a woman. I can just imagine what one of these types might transcribe into a review of DDM. "She's a sobbing, irrational, overly emotional character, at the whims and mercy of Kirk and Spock. With no sign that she can stand with her male counterparts. Ultimately she is driven to an illogical, hysterical choice. Decker is just another example of the low opinion the original Trek has of women. So much for being a progressive show."
Er, no. Pike is the one who offers up the possibility that he might go into business in the Orion colonies. Even after Boyce berates him on this point Pike, in frustration, defends his words with "The point is this isn't the only life available to me. There's a whole galaxy of things to choose from."
In reality, Gene was just a big pervert. The Green Animal Woman who enjoys being taken advantage of is straight out of an adult pulp sci fi story.
I also do not think the feminist concerns are particularly applicable. As others have said, she's not just some poor girl scooped up off the street and shoved into this position. She's clearly part of some kind of a royal hierarchy who have traditions of all manner. Things that *must* be done because you hold this position.
Is it fair, or what she wants to do? No, but I think, just as Kirk himself has faced, sometimes your duty does not permit you to do what you want to do. Mostly, for the good of a great many others.
This is when certain kinds of feminism end up inadvertently going too far. Fighting phantoms. As was pointed out in another thread, it's actually a good thing some of the insane captains/commodores/admirals were not female in TOS, because, even if you didn't change a single line of dialogue, they might still be construed by certain modern feminists as an example of the "blatant sexism" in TOS. Just imagine if, otherwise unchanged, Matt Decker was a woman. I can just imagine what one of these types might transcribe into a review of DDM. "She's a sobbing, irrational, overly emotional character, at the whims and mercy of Kirk and Spock. With no sign that she can stand with her male counterparts. Ultimately she is driven to an illogical, hysterical choice. Decker is just another example of the low opinion the original Trek has of women. So much for being a progressive show."
Er, no. Pike is the one who offers up the possibility that he might go into business in the Orion colonies. Even after Boyce berates him on this point Pike, in frustration, defends his words with "The point is this isn't the only life available to me. There's a whole galaxy of things to choose from."
In reality, Gene was just a big pervert. The Green Animal Woman who enjoys being taken advantage of is straight out of an adult pulp sci fi story.
Uh huh, and would Kirk threaten to "spank" a male character acting just the same? Nnnnnnope.
In a culture where women are routinely objectified, trivialized and infantalized, and wherein those who speak out against it are frequently trivialized and even threatened with rape and violence, I'm afraid I'd rather see people taking shots at "phantoms" than accepting the status quo.
I didn't suggest destroying the planet just not letting them join the Federation.
Say you allow anything, then how can Picard make his preachy speeches to everyone on how noble the Federation is when say the Tellerites bring their sex-slaves to negotiating tables.
Wow I didn't realise that TOS was so progressive by not showing one female Federation Captain or Commodore or Admiral.While it's certainly not a top ten episode, I think it's a fun adventure. .
I also do not think the feminist concerns are particularly applicable.
..
This is when certain kinds of feminism end up inadvertently going too far. Fighting phantoms. As was pointed out in another thread, it's actually a good thing some of the insane captains/commodores/admirals were not female in TOS, because, even if you didn't change a single line of dialogue, they might still be construed by certain modern feminists as an example of the "blatant sexism" in TOS. Just imagine if, otherwise unchanged, Matt Decker was a woman. I can just imagine what one of these types might transcribe into a review of DDM. "She's a sobbing, irrational, overly emotional character, at the whims and mercy of Kirk and Spock. With no sign that she can stand with her male counterparts. Ultimately she is driven to an illogical, hysterical choice. Decker is just another example of the low opinion the original Trek has of women. So much for being a progressive show."
Or any woman above the rank of Lt Commander.
I personally would have loved to have seen a Mathilde Decker. Especially when she overpowered a much younger redshirt on the way to stealing a shuttlecraft.
Still I enjoyed Matt Decker's performance. And I wouldn't really want to change such a great episode.
Overall I think TOS was quite progressive (for its time) in its treatment of women and different races. But 'Elaan of Toyius' would not be acceptable as an episode of any series made today IMO.
Yes, it would have been much more progressive to threaten a right cross, just like he used on Akuta and that adolecent that wanted his tricycle in Miri.
I feel the same way about Blazing Saddles. And it's a shame, but that's where we are.
...And Boyce turns this into a joke. He is Pike's doctor, after all. "You really planning on starting a business in Louisiana? I never thought you'd be the type to wield a bullwhip on your, uh, field operatives!"
Pike would become a trader at Orion, not an Orion trader - and it's the latter sort that has the ill reputation (whether based on up-to-date fact, outdated fact or sheer superstition, we don't know).
No disagreement there. It doesn't follow that the Trek universe would feature Gene's fantasies as reality - although it obviously features them as fantasy at least. (From which it probably directly follows anyway that they aren't Trek reality - people seldom fantasize about the mundane.)
Timo Saloniemi
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