Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the ending?

[Gaith]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

He was an actual officer with the rank of major in the US Army who was attached to the UDF. He just hadn't seen any combat because he was a desk jockey public relations guy. That doesn't make his rank any less real.

Yep, he obviously got a direct commission - they're on the rare side, especially in recent generations, but they absolutely exist, and their ranks are absolutely real. The difference between enlisted and officer servicemen far predates the US military - pretty sure it goes back to Roman Empire times at least - and is much too important to half-ass.

As for Cap, in CA:TFA, he was an enlisted soldier who went to a special science-y boot camp, and received a direct commission (offscreen) to Captain after getting juiced up and saving that kid.

It's an alien invasion, not Gulf War XII, so the stakes are a lot higher and desperate measures easier to pull off.

Still, when you throw a completely untrained guy into a ground assault alongside other lots of other infantry, he's much more likely to panic and hit fellow countrymen than an enemy. The general would know that, but even if he was so sick and twisted that he didn't care, the master sergeant would know that, and the squad leader would know that, and neither would let him accompany them armed.

One can say that the nonsensical military depiction doesn't detract from your enjoyment of the movie any more than seeing armed crime lab investigators go after suspects detracts from your enjoyment of the CSI franchise. That's all fine. Just don't try and pretend as though the alien invasion context makes the military aspect one iota less ludicrous, because it doesn't. Not one teensy-tiny bit.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

Yes, we wouldn't want anything as ludicrous as untrained personnel being sent into combat to die to muck up the absolute plausibility of the film's premise.

 

[Gaith]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

^ Dude, I just wrote that if it doesn't diminish your enjoyment of the movie, that's fine. As a service member myself, however, it does annoy me a bit when the military is portrayed so flippantly and nonsensically. Do I have your lordship's permission to be a bit annoyed?

And my underlying concern isn't over a silly flop of an FPS-aping action movie, or even a critically-acclaimed movie like The Hurt Locker, which features just as absurd plot points. What concerns me is that people may see this movie and not even register all the absurdities of the depiction of the armed forces, whether it's ours, Britain's, or some fictional NATO-like coalition. There ought to be mandatory nationwide high school civics classes, and basic military structures and principles should be part of said classes, to help citizens better understand the lives and jobs of the service members whose commander-in-chief we all elect. Ordindary citizens should know, for example, that commissioned officers can't be demoted to privates because they held non-existent "honorary" officer ranks. If citizens did know that, and enjoyed the movie anyway, I wouldn't complain, but I suspect that for far too many, that's just not the case - and that level of ignorance is disrespectful to our service members.

 

[Taylirious]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

Do I have your lordship's permission to be a bit annoyed?

No.

 

[DWF]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

Yes, we wouldn't want anything as ludicrous as untrained personnel being sent into combat to die to muck up the absolute plausibility of the film's premise.

Cage only died the first time killing an alpha, the same thing happened to a trained soldier when it happened to Rita as well. The funny is though we saw how much better Cage was at fighting with upteen days of combat practice behind him.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

^ Dude, I just wrote that if it doesn't diminish your enjoyment of the movie, that's fine. As a service member myself, however, it does annoy me a bit when the military is portrayed so flippantly and nonsensically. Do I have your lordship's permission to be a bit annoyed?

I don't know, do I have your Royal Heinous' permission to make a joke about the absurdity of the film's premise and the comparatively small matter this is without him flipping the hell out about it?

And my underlying concern isn't over a silly flop of an FPS-aping action movie, or even a critically-acclaimed movie like The Hurt Locker, which features just as absurd plot points. What concerns me is that people may see this movie and not even register all the absurdities of the depiction of the armed forces, whether it's ours, Britain's, or some fictional NATO-like coalition. There ought to be mandatory nationwide high school civics classes, and basic military structures and principles should be part of said classes, to help citizens better understand the lives and jobs of the service members whose commander-in-chief we all elect. Ordindary citizens should know, for example, that commissioned officers can't be demoted to privates because they held non-existent "honorary" officer ranks. If citizens did know that, and enjoyed the movie anyway, I wouldn't complain, but I suspect that for far too many, that's just not the case - and that level of ignorance is disrespectful to our service members.

Well, you clearly want to go way the hell off into Tangentland instead of just discussing the movie, so I'll only indulge this a little.

Hollywood blockbusters aren't History Channel documentaries. Hell, History Channel documentaries aren't History Channel documentaries anymore. When they're historically or militarily accurate, it's a pleasant bonus, but expecting absolute conformity to military reality from writers and directors who might not share that experience, and expecting the needs of the script to take a backseat to military realism is unreasonable, especially in a film that makes absolutely no claim to any attempt at realism.

I'm all for civics classes, but learning military protocol and structure in-depth as a mandatory class is about number 400 on things students need to learn about. You know where they learn that? In school in the ROTC, in a military school or academy, or --wait for it-- in the military when they join up and it's clear that they want to make that part of their career path. And before you get all bent out of shape again, I'm not saying they shouldn't learn anything about the military, it's just that learning military protocol and structure when you have no intention of pursuing a life in the military seem wholly unnecessary as a educational priority, especially when students are falling behind on the fundamentals.

Yes, we wouldn't want anything as ludicrous as untrained personnel being sent into combat to die to muck up the absolute plausibility of the film's premise.

Cage only died the first time killing an alpha, the same thing happened to a trained soldier when it happened to Rita as well. The funny is though we saw how much better Cage was at fighting with upteen days of combat practice behind him.

I'm not sure I follow your point. I was talking about the General's motives for sending him into combat without training after Cage refused to follow orders, attempted to blackmail him, and ran.

 

[DWF]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

The general didn't blackmail Cage, he gave him a direct order and Cage disobeyed it. But in the end it wasn't Cage's lack of training that led to the time travel, it was the mere fact that killed an alpha. Despite his lack of training Cage was actually surviving the battle.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

The general didn't blackmail Cage, he gave him a direct order and Cage disobeyed it. But in the end it wasn't Cage's lack of training that led to the time travel, it was the mere fact that killed an alpha. Despite his lack of training Cage was actually surviving the battle.

It's like you're having a conversation with a completely different person.

I didn't say the General blackmailed Cage. I said Cage tried to blackmail the General. I said in my own post that Cage disobeyed orders. And nowhere in my post was I describing the mechanism that led to the timeloops starting. I was purely describing the General's intent by sending Cage to the frontline as a grunt off the books and without training.

 

[Gaith]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

As for teaching military basics in civics classes, maybe that is a discussion better suited to a separate thread in Misc./TNZ. I'll only throw in one more point:

I'm not saying they shouldn't learn anything about the military, it's just that learning military protocol and structure when you have no intention of pursuing a life in the military seem wholly unnecessary as a educational priority, especially when students are falling behind on the fundamentals.

Seeing as how the military belongs to and represents all American citizens, regardless of how they feel about it and what it does, I think some basic - "basic", as I wrote, and which you interpreted as "in-depth" - instruction would help them be more informed citizens, particularly in regards to foreign policy.

Most citizens will never run for Congress or propose a bill or Constitutional amendment, but I think we can agree that a basic knowledge of those structures is a good thing. Given its importance in global politics, I don't see why as little as a cursory knowledge of military structures and principles should be any different. Especially if aliens invade Europe, and the nation becomes WW2-levels of military-centric government again; it'd be best not to have to play country-wide catch-up.

/tangent, on my part

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

He was an actual officer with the rank of major in the US Army who was attached to the UDF. He just hadn't seen any combat because he was a desk jockey public relations guy. That doesn't make his rank any less real.

I'll take your interpretation for it. Mine was obviously different since the extent we're given of Cage's "military experience" is his ROTC program.

And the General wasn't just throwing him in to be cannon fodder until Cage had 1) refused to follow orders, 2) attempted to blackmail him, and 3) attempted to desert his post. Originally the General wanted to use his popularity as a TV figure to promote the cause from the frontlines with an embedded camera crew in what he thought would be a victorious battle. He wasn't just trying to throw his life away at first. He considered him important. It was only when Cage was a monumental douche that he said "fuck this guy" and sent him off to be a grunt without any training.

Yeah, I muddied what I said above, but this was my interpretation. The General was all for using Cage's popularity for some degree of "good" for the war effort but when Cage started going all DB on it the General made Cage cannon fodder.

The General was purposely sidestepping official channels and using the confusion of the coming battle to do so.

That and, I'd still argue a "force of numbers" with the dressing down of Cage he was then just one more guy who could get shot instead of someone more valuable. Once Cage became such a dick he was cannon fodder, pretty much like everyone else thrown on that beach with minimal experience and training (it's doubtful everyone on that beach was as trained and prepared as J-Squad.)

As for my comments above on "honorary" titles for officers.

It was not my intent to suggest that such things actually exist. But neither do mechsuits/exoskeleton combat aids, alien hordes capable of time travel or quad-prop drop ships for troops. It was my interpretation that in the fictional universe of the movie that Cage's military training and experience didn't extend much beyond his ROTC courses. Considering he pretty much says as much himself before getting into advertising, which fell apart when the war broke out. It was then my interpretation that he just somehow used his charisma, advertising talents and limited military experience to become a "pundit" for the war, drumming up more support for the technology being employed getting him something of an "honorary" title or whatever an equivalent is when someone goes from near ROTC drop-out to a Major because they look good talking to people on cable news.

It wasn't my impression Cage was a "genuine" officer because, really, I think a genuine officer would act better and not be so skittish bout combat or ignorant when it came to operating firearms.

 

[Gaith]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

^ Did you read that "direct commission" Wikipedia link above, hombre? There are absolutely military officers who are given completely real ranks without ever having completed Boot Camp, Officer Candidate School, ROTC, an academy, or combat training of any kind. And some of those - not all, but some - when faced with the prospect of joining a vicious battle using equipment for which they've had zero training (and why would a PR guy have trained on a brand-new mech suit?), would very probably react with terror and entirely justifiable cowardice.

The notion that everyone in the military/every military officer is a badass who's ready to face a life-and-death armed combat situation is just plain wrong.

 

[Brolan]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

One thing I don't get, I can understand how Cage can get the power from the Alphas and the Omega, but why do the aliens lose the power? Or do they revive too in another timeline where they fix their mistakes?

If that is true it means both sides win in different timelines.

 

[JoeZhang]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

The General was all for using Cage's popularity for some degree of "good" for the war effort but when Cage started going all DB on it the General made Cage cannon fodder.

The odd thing is, the scenes in the title sequence make it appear that way but in the rest of the film - what popularity? Nobody knows him.

 

[Gaith]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

^ The grunts were too busy training to watch cable news aimed at civilians. That part's not unrealistic at all.

 

[JoeZhang]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

^ The grunts were too busy training to watch cable news aimed at civilians. That part's not unrealistic at all.

None of the Civilians know him either - it's almost like a hangover from a previous draft or maybe was better done in the Jeremy Piven scenes that we never saw (if they were actually filmed).

 

[Star Wolf]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

^ The grunts were too busy training to watch cable news aimed at civilians. That part's not unrealistic at all.

None of the Civilians know him either - it's almost like a hangover from a previous draft or maybe was better done in the Jeremy Piven scenes that we never saw (if they were actually filmed).

Perhaps he was local to the Americas. .There did seem to be volunteers fighting, but not US armed forces as distinct units.

 

[Destructor]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

Why is he back on the helicopter at the end, or better yet why does he wake up on sacks like he does for the majority of the movie.

I've been thinking about this and I believe I have the answer.

The first Alpha that bleed on him is a 'frontline' alpha- it meets him and dies on the front lines. Frontline mistakes get sent back in time one day since death on the front lines is common and swift, so you only need 24 hours to correct the mistake.

The second Alpha to bleed on him at the end of the film was a 'bodyguard' Alpha- a larger, more intelligent Alpha that is assigned specifically to protect the Omega. If this Alpha dies, the Omega knows that there is a serious problem (since a bodyguard Alpha would only die RIGHT NEXT to the Omega) that may take longer than 24 hours to solve, so it reflexively jumps backwards in time a longer jump, so Cruise woke up earlier.

Actually, while writing that I have realized that Trekker4747 is right- the Omega jumped backwards in time and died, which means Cruise was never knocked out, so never woke up 'again' at the FoB- he just woke up the first time. This is a lot more logical and seems quite obvious now that it's been explained.

One thing I don't get, I can understand how Cage can get the power from the Alphas and the Omega, but why do the aliens lose the power? Or do they revive too in another timeline where they fix their mistakes?

I think Cruise and the Alphas had the power, but basically the time jump was triggered by whoever died first, which was invariably Cruise (the Alphas, aware of the time-jumping, would probably not make the same 'get blown up by a mine' mistake again).

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

I don't think there's any connection between his state of consciousness and when the "reset point" was for when he woke-up at the beginning of the loop. Remember, Cage arrived at the base nearly a full day BEFORE the battle on the beach. Which means at some point between waking up from being tased and landing on the beach he had to have slept. Putting a state of unconsciousness between when he's woken up by the drill segregant and the battle on the beach.

Meaning the "reset point" has to be something else, most likely some-kind-of cycle or other condition. Which sort of makes me consider something else about the end of the movie.

It wasn't Alpha blood he got on him underwater it was Omega blood. Maybe the Omega's reset point happens to go further back?

 

[Destructor]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

It wasn't Alpha blood he got on him underwater it was Omega blood. Maybe the Omega's reset point happens to go further back?

Was it? Well yes, so my theory still applies, that Omega blood might jump you back further than Alpha blood does.

But we're really not sure when Cruise reawakens on the FoB- how long do you normally lose consciousness for when you're knocked out?

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Edge of Tomorrow: fun movie but can someone please explain the end

But we're really not sure when Cruise reawakens on the FoB- how long do you normally lose consciousness for when you're knocked out?

Depends on the extent of your cranial trauma. If you're "knocked out" and you lose consciousness for anything more than a moment you should probably be sent to a hospital and not an army base because your brain is fucking BLEEDING!

But he wasn't knocked out, he was tazed. Which, well, that doesn't make you unconscious either So maybe he was movie-knocked out/tazed. However long he as out for it couldn't have been for more than maybe an hour or two since he awakes on the base on the same day he met with the Commander.

And, yeah, it was the Omega blood. We see the blue "blood" raise up from the dead Omega and envelop Cage, seeping into his wounds, his eyes turn black and he awakes on the helicopter.

Now, this does raise a lot of questions on whether or not Cage has regained the power to restart the day if he needs to, even if the Omega and Alphas are dead, how the Omega is still dead in the past if it can reset the day too in order to prevent its own demise. But maybe it's death is somehow tethered to all points in time, it's a fourth-dimensional being, so for it dying is dying and only the Alphas have the ability to reset the day, living in regular 3-dimensions, just being able to reset on death.

A lot of questions when you dig too deep into the story that don't add up but that's usually pretty common in any story that involves time-travel.

Because it would seem that the Alpha blood is not only four-dimensional but maybe even five-dimensional or beyond. Considering Cage is able to reset the day after only a single exposure to the blood, the blood (or at least the ability to reset the day) seemingly traveling with him since the transfusion undoes the process, or it would also seem exsanguination as the Alphas/Drones attempted at the dam.

So while Cage's body isn't traveling through time it would seem his mind and this blood/ability is and it doesn't need to be "replenished" at any point. Blunt's character tells us she saw a comrade die 300 times, which means it's at least that number of days she lasted with the power before getting a transfusion. Could be more depending on how long she lasted after each instance of her death.

Be interesting to count, and assume/estimate how long Cage went through the experience when the movies comes to DVD. By not only counting each day we see but then even surmising how many days went by we didn't see (giving him a few days for each time they made it to the barn, tried to talk to the Captain to learn the pattern in the building, made it to the captain to try and convince him, etc.)