Earth's Role

[gottacook]

...not even that many human beings who were directly identified as having been born anywhere other than Earth.

One of my favorite lines in "Is There in Truth No Beauty?": Miranda tells Kirk (in the rose garden, I think) "I've never been to Earth." I like Diana Muldaur's way with this line.

The Making of Star Trek (1968) includes memos that discuss why the series would never return to Earth of the present. Good reasons, as I recall. One of the selling points of TMP was that fans would finally get to see Earth, or at least Star Fleet headquarters. But that movie made it easier for later movies (in 1986, 1996, 2002, and 2009) to return to the Earth-under-threat scenario. Five such movies are already too many.

 

[EyalM]

Is this even an Earth under threat scenario? Or are we so used to this plot device that we just assume so?
In previous movies the whole planet was indeed under threat: V'ger, the whale probe, the Borg, Shinzon and Nero all threatened to wipe out all life on the planet (kind-of, in the Borg's case). But there is nothing in the information we have to assume the threat this time is the same.
Just because there are attacks taking place on Earth, doesn't mean Earth is under attack. From the information we do have it seems that Harrison's is targeting Starfleet, which just happen to on earth, but not targeting the plant as a whole.

 

[SalvorHardin]

Is this even an Earth under threat scenario? Or are we so used to this plot device that we just assume so?
In previous movies the whole planet was indeed under threat: V'ger, the whale probe, the Borg, Shinzon and Nero all threatened to wipe out all life on the planet (kind-of, in the Borg's case). But there is nothing in the information we have to assume the threat this time is the same.
Just because there are attacks taking place on Earth, doesn't mean Earth is under attack. From the information we do have it seems that Harrison's is targeting Starfleet, which just happen to on earth, but not targeting the plant as a whole.

That's pretty much my understanding too.

 

[Jeyl]

Just because there are attacks taking place on Earth, doesn't mean Earth is under attack. From the information we do have it seems that Harrison's is targeting Starfleet, which just happen to on earth, but not targeting the plant as a whole.

"You think your world is safe? It is an illusion. A comforting lie told to protect you."

 

[SalvorHardin]

Just because there are attacks taking place on Earth, doesn't mean Earth is under attack. From the information we do have it seems that Harrison's is targeting Starfleet, which just happen to on earth, but not targeting the plant as a whole.

"You think your world is safe? It is an illusion. A comforting lie told to protect you."

Our family, our friends, our jobs, they are our world. Kirk's crew, the Enterprise and Starfleet are his world.
He's not necessarily talking about planet Earth as a whole.

 

[marksound]

TMP was hindered by it's story, which was a re-write of a Phase II episode, so they filled it with CGI-heavy filler.

It was 1979. CGI hadn't been invented yet. Just sayin'.

Now, back on topic ...

I don't see what the problem is. Earth is where Starfleet lives. If you threaten Earth, you threaten Starfleet. And vice-versa.

 

[Jeyl]

I don't see what the problem is. Earth is where Starfleet lives. If you threaten Earth, you threaten Starfleet. And vice-versa.

What about the United Federation of Planets? The organization that Starfleet is a part of that represents multiple races working together? I'd kill to see a Star Trek movie that would involve all the races of the Federation facing a challenge that could change everything, not just the well being of Earth.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I don't see what the problem is. Earth is where Starfleet lives. If you threaten Earth, you threaten Starfleet. And vice-versa.

What about the United Federation of Planets? The organization that Starfleet is a part of that represents multiple races working together? I'd kill to see a Star Trek movie that would involve all the races of the Federation facing a challenge that could change everything, not just the well being of Earth.

You do know Earth is where the Federation council and Starfleet are headquartered at right? So attacking earth kind of does affect the federation since its the federations freaking capital.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Although I think that the attack on Earth is the final confrontation.

[/QUOTE]

I think the Earth stuff happens in the first half of the movie, and it all ends on Qo'nos, since ...

Spoiler: big spoilers

In the Qo'nos scenes in the trailers, Kirk, Spock and Uhura are in civvies, with non-Starfleet weapons. So it's after Kirk's big mistake that costs him his command.

 

[Franklin]

I don't see what the problem is. Earth is where Starfleet lives. If you threaten Earth, you threaten Starfleet. And vice-versa.

What about the United Federation of Planets? The organization that Starfleet is a part of that represents multiple races working together? I'd kill to see a Star Trek movie that would involve all the races of the Federation facing a challenge that could change everything, not just the well being of Earth.

We saw that with the destruction of Vulcan in ST09. You don't think that changed everything? Further, "all the races" were involved and worked together through Starfleet. Unfortunately, they failed.

 

[SalvorHardin]

I think the Earth stuff happens in the first half of the movie, and it all ends on Qo'nos, since ...

Spoiler: big spoilers

In the Qo'nos scenes in the trailers, Kirk, Spock and Uhura are in civvies, with non-Starfleet weapons. So it's after Kirk's big mistake that costs him his command.

I don't think it ends in Qo'nos. The way I understand it from the trailers, images and interviews

Spoiler: spoilers?

They are at Nibiru doing their thing while Harrison is back on Earth blowing cities up.
Kirk and crew go back to Earth, there he loses command and they go rogue hunting Harrison on Qo'nos. They capture him, and then Kirk somehow gets him in the brig of the Enterprise and regains his command.
After that more things happen we are not yet aware of and haven't seen in the trailers.

 

[Franklin]

I think the Earth stuff happens in the first half of the movie, and it all ends on Qo'nos, since ...

Spoiler: big spoilers

In the Qo'nos scenes in the trailers, Kirk, Spock and Uhura are in civvies, with non-Starfleet weapons. So it's after Kirk's big mistake that costs him his command.

I don't think it ends in Qo'nos. The way I understand it from the trailers, images and interviews

Spoiler: spoilers?

They are at Nibiru doing their thing while Harrison is back on Earth blowing cities up.
Kirk and crew go back to Earth, there he loses command and they go rogue hunting Harrison on Qo'nos. They capture him, and then Kirk somehow gets him in the brig of the Enterprise and regains his command.
After that more things happen we are not yet aware of and haven't seen in the trailers.

OK, but

Spoiler: Spoilerish

that explains Kirk in civvies. But why are Spock and Uhura in civvies, too? Did they get busted, too? Could be it's better for humans to run around Kronos in civvies and without Starfleet weapons than it is to be seen in uniform with standard-issue phasers.
I think what we're seeing on Nibiru is supposed to be indicative of the kind of adventures Kirk and his crew have been having over the year. And, I can't think of Kirk doing anything on Nibiru that would get him relieved of command -- repremanded, maybe, unless Starfleet in this universe is far more strtict than it was in TOS.

Of course, who really knows? (Other than Abrams and his group.)

 

[SalvorHardin]

I think the Earth stuff happens in the first half of the movie, and it all ends on Qo'nos, since ...

Spoiler: big spoilers

In the Qo'nos scenes in the trailers, Kirk, Spock and Uhura are in civvies, with non-Starfleet weapons. So it's after Kirk's big mistake that costs him his command.

I don't think it ends in Qo'nos. The way I understand it from the trailers, images and interviews

Spoiler: spoilers?

They are at Nibiru doing their thing while Harrison is back on Earth blowing cities up.
Kirk and crew go back to Earth, there he loses command and they go rogue hunting Harrison on Qo'nos. They capture him, and then Kirk somehow gets him in the brig of the Enterprise and regains his command.
After that more things happen we are not yet aware of and haven't seen in the trailers.

OK, but

Spoiler: Spoilerish

that explains Kirk in civvies. But why are Spock and Uhura in civvies, too? Did they get busted, too? Could be it's better for humans to run around Kronos in civvies and without Starfleet weapons than it is to be seen in uniform with standard-issue phasers.
I think what we're seeing on Nibiru is supposed to be indicative of the kind of adventures Kirk and his crew have been having over the year. And, I can't think of Kirk doing anything on Nibiru that would get him relieved of command -- repremanded, maybe, unless Starfleet in this universe is far more strtict than it was in TOS.

Of course, who really knows? (Other than Abrams and his group.)

Well

Spoiler: spoilers?

Maybe what gets Kirk to lose his command isn't just the Nibiru incident. It could be because he wants to go after Harrison for what he's done on Earth but Starfleet gives him orders not to, for fear he might cause an incident with the Klingons. Something he does not accept.
And Spock & Uhura agree to go with him disregarding orders as well.

 

[Franklin]

I don't think it ends in Qo'nos. The way I understand it from the trailers, images and interviews

Spoiler: spoilers?

They are at Nibiru doing their thing while Harrison is back on Earth blowing cities up.
Kirk and crew go back to Earth, there he loses command and they go rogue hunting Harrison on Qo'nos. They capture him, and then Kirk somehow gets him in the brig of the Enterprise and regains his command.
After that more things happen we are not yet aware of and haven't seen in the trailers.

OK, but

Spoiler: Spoilerish

that explains Kirk in civvies. But why are Spock and Uhura in civvies, too? Did they get busted, too? Could be it's better for humans to run around Kronos in civvies and without Starfleet weapons than it is to be seen in uniform with standard-issue phasers.
I think what we're seeing on Nibiru is supposed to be indicative of the kind of adventures Kirk and his crew have been having over the year. And, I can't think of Kirk doing anything on Nibiru that would get him relieved of command -- repremanded, maybe, unless Starfleet in this universe is far more strtict than it was in TOS.

Of course, who really knows? (Other than Abrams and his group.)

Well

Spoiler: spoilers?

Maybe what gets Kirk to lose his command isn't the Nibiru incident. It could be because he wants to go after Harrison for what he's done on Earth but Starfleet gives him orders not to. Something he does not accept.
And Spock & Uhura agree to go with him disregarding orders as well.

Yeah. I could go with that.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Yeah, this is my least favorite aspect of new Star Trek. It's only been one film so far and hints about the next, but this quote seems to cement the geocentric nature of this version of the Federation and Starfleet...

The goecentric nature of the the Federation (and especially Starfleet) had been cemented long ago by Star Trek TV shows and the first ten movies. Just look at the overwhelmingly vast majority of humans on the Enterprise. Consider the location of Starfleet academy. Consider the location of the capital of the Federation.

Obviously in the Star Trek universe (even prior to Abrams involvement), Earth and Humanity are very, very important.

 

[The Wormhole]

One Earth-focused movie in a 46 year-old space franchise isn't going to hurt at all.

Star Trek TMP? Star Trek IV? Star Trek: First Contact? Star Trek: Nemesis? Star Trek XI?

I suppose I should have said Future Earth focused. TMP has what, one scene set on Earth and a handful in Earth orbit? Trek IV is mostly on Earth in 1986 with a handful of scenes set on 23rd century Earth. First Contact is mostly on 21st century Earth, with a few scenes in 24th century Earth orbit, and even then it's briefly an alternate timeline. Nemesis has one scene on Earth and one in Earth orbit. XI you have a point, but even that has plenty of scenes not on Earth.

 

[The Doctor]

Yeah, this is my least favorite aspect of new Star Trek. It's only been one film so far and hints about the next, but this quote seems to cement the geocentric nature of this version of the Federation and Starfleet...

The goecentric nature of the the Federation (and especially Starfleet) had been cemented long ago by Star Trek TV shows and the first ten movies. Just look at the overwhelmingly vast majority of humans on the Enterprise. Consider the location of Starfleet academy. Consider the location of the capital of the Federation.

Obviously in the Star Trek universe (even prior to Abrams involvement), Earth and Humanity are very, very important.

Indeed. It actually made very little sense post-TOS. In TOS, Kirk was clearly in command of an Earth starship but as the franchise grew and the Federation became more and more prominent, the Earth-centric nature of Starfleet was odd indeed. For all the hundreds of member races in the Federation, was Earth the only one that built starships? Why wasn't Starfleet comprised of Vulcan, Andorian and other alien-built ships? Why were all the top Starfleet brass invariably human?

Just one more reason why the continuity and canon were't worth a hill of spit.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Yeah, this is my least favorite aspect of new Star Trek. It's only been one film so far and hints about the next, but this quote seems to cement the geocentric nature of this version of the Federation and Starfleet...

The goecentric nature of the the Federation (and especially Starfleet) had been cemented long ago by Star Trek TV shows and the first ten movies. Just look at the overwhelmingly vast majority of humans on the Enterprise. Consider the location of Starfleet academy. Consider the location of the capital of the Federation.

Obviously in the Star Trek universe (even prior to Abrams involvement), Earth and Humanity are very, very important.

Indeed. It actually made very little sense post-TOS. In TOS, Kirk was clearly in command of an Earth starship but as the franchise grew and the Federation became more and more prominent, the Earth-centric nature of Starfleet was odd indeed. For all the hundreds of member races in the Federation, was Earth the only one that built starships? Why wasn't Starfleet comprised of Vulcan, Andorian and other alien-built ships? Why were all the top Starfleet brass invariably human?

Just one more reason why the continuity and canon were't worth a hill of spit.

Actually Enterprise did a reasonably good job of showing that Trek ships weren't all Earth designed. Andorian ships had the TOS- style helm/nav stations, energy shields and the blue phasers. Vulcan ships had the TOS movie-style computer graphics. The Enterprise NX-01 had the exterior shape, nacelles and (by the end) TOS series bridge graphics.

 

[SonicRanger]

My concern is that ST09 already utterly destroyed Roddenberry’s vision of 23rd-century humans and Earth!

JJ and crew ignored everything about Roddenberry's vision of Earth and humanity. What was ignored?

Well, here's a list for starters...

- "New Humans" who are willing to meld their own identities and individuality into a group consciousness versus rare "Primitives" like Kirk who still follow ancient customs like taking the last name of your father. In fact, using the father's surname is quite rare among most humans.
- Humanity moving beyond primitive monogamy and becoming swingers.
- James Kirk was named for his mother’s “first love instructor,” not his grandfather!
- George Kirk as just another of his mother's love instructors.
- Kirk's academy class had less "intellectual agility" than previous classes.
- The Federation installing cybernetic implants (senceivers) in Starfleet member's heads.

Now don't go screaming "not canon!" because this is the word of Trek's creator himself, as bestowed upon us in the official movie tie-in of the pinnacle of Star Trek at its absolute purest: Star Trek: The Motion Picture!

And consider the description of Earth from the 1977 draft of Phase II/TMP:

San Francisco -- a few familiar landmarks still recognizable. A beautiful summer day. Families romp and play in a parkland area. Animals, unafraid, wander about. Tasteful adult nudity here and there.

Admiral James T. Kirk, in civilian attire, strolls through the park, looking for someone. Ahead of him he spots two teenagers and their pet cheetahs. A man, his back to Kirk, gives first-aid to the wounded paw of one of the cheetahs. Kirk smiles, moves forward.

It is Leonard "Bones" McCoy (known to the locals as the "animal doctor"). He and Kirk greet each other warmly, but warily.

Where was this in the new film?

Everyone in the new trailer looks clothed, and there are no wild animals wandering about!

 

[The Wormhole]

Now don't go screaming "not canon!" because this is the word of Trek's creator himself, as bestowed upon us in the official movie tie-in of the pinnacle of Star Trek at its absolute purest: Star Trek: The Motion Picture!

Which Roddenberry himself declared non-canon (the novelization, that is, not the movie). Although, I will admit, that novelization really does offer some interesting insights into Roddenberry's mindset.