E-E joke at Worf's expense

[Tosk]

I can't help but wonder if the Enterprise-E was killed off-screen because of the Titan becoming the Enterprise in the finale.

If you were running things, would you want your new ship to succeed a well-liked, historied ship that should arguably still be in service...or would you rather have it take over from a ship with zero emotional connection and less-loved design? Which approach leads to the most people embracing the Ent-G as it is?

 

[Timofnine]

Eh, the show was just building off the novels in this instance.

Novels are *not* canon. @Christopher ’s can be, though? If Christopher would like to explain how Worf destroyed the Enterprise E, I will accept his post as canon.

 

[David cgc]

Novels notwithstanding, Data was established (or, if you're stubborn, heavily implied) to be Riker's intended successor as first officer in NEM, and with him dead, and Martin Madden relegated to the deleted scenes, the new first officer would likely be Worf, Geordi, or Crusher, and Worf does have the most command experience (he's even wearing the right color shirt already). The first officer would be the logical choice to be Picard's successor.

Even then, PIC (and the supplementary material for season 3) did avoid saying Worf had been the captain outright.

 

[Timofnine]

I can't help but wonder if the Enterprise-E was killed off-screen because of the Titan becoming the Enterprise in the finale.

If you were running things, would you want your new ship to succeed a well-liked, historied ship that should arguably still be in service...or would you rather have it take over from a ship with zero emotional connection and less-loved design? Which approach leads to the most people embracing the Ent-G as it is?

Terry wanted his show to be called Star Trek: Titan at first. He loved that ship.

Novels notwithstanding, Data was established (or, if you're stubborn, heavily implied) to be Riker's intended successor as first officer in NEM, and with him dead, and Martin Madden relegated to the deleted scenes, the new first officer would likely be Worf, Geordi, or Crusher, and Worf does have the most command experience (he's even wearing the right color shirt already). The first officer would be the logical choice to be Picard's successor.

Even then, PIC (and the supplementary material for season 3) did avoid saying Worf had been the captain outright.

Seven of Nine should have been successor as Captain of the Enterprise E in the late 2390’s. But she was made in to a Fenris Ranger pirate instead…

 

[David cgc]

Seven of Nine should have been successor as Captain of the Enterprise. But she was made in to a Fenris Ranger pirate instead…

I'd say that going from civilian advisor to captain of the flagship in four years seems a little fast, but, well...

 

[The Gatekeeper]

I can see why they had the E-F instead of the E-E... They would have been on the hook for reasonably recreating the E-E bridge for the scenes with Shelby.

What, there couldn't have been a refit in the twenty plus years since Nemesis resulting in the bridge having a different look?

Novels are *not* canon.

No shit, really? Still doesn't change the fact that the novels is where they got the idea for Worf being the Enterprise E's Captain, which Matalas has even confirmed.

 

[Tosk]

Terry wanted his show to be called Star Trek: Titan at first. He loved that ship.

I can't tell if you're refuting my musing or agreeing with it. Or neither.

Seven of Nine should have been successor as Captain of the Enterprise E in the late 2390’s.

Why?

 

[Tuskin38]

Worf becoming captain was part of Season 1's backstory as well IIRC. It was never mentioned on screen, but it was part of the timeline they made up for the writer's room.

I remember people constantly asking Terry if he'd keep it before Season 3 released.

 

[fireproof78]

Terry wanted his show to be called Star Trek: Titan at first. He loved that ship.

It's so sad when a couple breaks up. I should send him a card for formerly loving the Titan.

Seven of Nine should have been successor as Captain of the Enterprise E in the late 2390’s.

Oh, hell no. Why would she get that? There absolutely no reason for it, and would confirm the nepotism already present in her story and double down on it. Seven has many different directions that she could go as a character; captain of the Enterprise shouldn't be in the top 25.

 

[Lord Garth]

Novels are *not* canon. @Christopher ’s can be, though? If Christopher would like to explain how Worf destroyed the Enterprise E, I will accept his post as canon.

Setting aside that I disagree with him about a lot, novels aren't considered canon, period. Forget about posts.

 

[Boo-khat!]

Oh, hell no. Why would she get that? There absolutely no reason for it, and would confirm the nepotism already present in her story and double down on it. Seven has many different directions that she could go as a character; captain of the Enterprise shouldn't be in the top 25.

He has an obsession with 7 of 9 being captain of an Enterprise for reasons that only he and Terry Matalas can explain.

 

[Boo-khat!]

I can see why they had the E-F instead of the E-E... They would have been on the hook for reasonably recreating the E-E bridge for the scenes with Shelby. Plus it would steal the thunder from the E-D bridge reveal later in the episode.

They could have just redressed the Titan’s bridge, just like it was a redress of the Stargazer’s bridge. They would not have needed to slavishly recreate the Enterprise-E’s bridge from the films. The audience would just have assumed it was upgraded from its last appearance twenty years before, if they would have even cared about it at all. The Ent-F’s bridge was shown for like 20 seconds total.

 

[arch101]

If you were running things, would you want your new ship to succeed a well-liked, historied ship that should arguably still be in service...or would you rather have it take over from a ship with zero emotional connection and less-loved design? Which approach leads to the most people embracing the Ent-G as it is?

Ehhh- Well-liked? The Enterprise E was always received by fandom with mixed reviews. It was NEVER loved like the D.

 

[Tosk]

Ehhh- Well-liked? The Enterprise E was always received by fandom with mixed reviews. It was NEVER loved like the D.

Which is why I did not call it loved.

 

[HauntRod]

Ehhh- Well-liked? The Enterprise E was always received by fandom with mixed reviews. It was NEVER loved like the D.

I dunno about that. The Enterprise-E seems very popular in the modeling community.

The Enterprise-D is still considered among many to be a rather lopsided design with the interior of a 80's luxury hotel.
Neither are my favourite, but I do prefer the E to the D.

I'm a sucker for longer nacelles.

 

[fireproof78]

The Enterprise-D is still considered among many to be a rather lopsided design with the interior of a 80's luxury hotel.
Neither are my favourite, but I do prefer the E to the D.

Same here. The E has a better sense of proportion than the D. I don't think the E had a long enough history to be valued like the D. The D has a strong nostalgic link like a favorite family home. The setting means more.

 

[Weyoun 251]

I dunno about that. The Enterprise-E seems very popular in the modeling community.

The Enterprise-D is still considered among many to be a rather lopsided design with the interior of a 80's luxury hotel.
Neither are my favourite, but I do prefer the E to the D.

I'm a sucker for longer nacelles.

I loved the E-E more than the E-D but I also know that at the age I was I was far more excited by sleek and nimble (similar to pod racers) and the visuals such as it taking a salvo from the Borg to protect the Defiant.

The D is a product of the UFP era and with age I have come to appreciate it more and what it represents but in the DS9 Dominion War era the E-E fit perfectly and just looked sleek - similar to the Prometheus

I feel the joking at Worf’s expense was meant to parody the jokes made about Deanna after Generations.

Would love to find out the story - maybe also it leading to Worf’s change to a more sanguine and philosophical sort in PIC?

 

[Boo-khat!]

I can't help but wonder if the Enterprise-E was killed off-screen because of the Titan becoming the Enterprise in the finale.

Matalas is quoted as saying that he included the Enterprise-F as a tribute to the fans who play STO (despite like 1% of the entire Star Trek fanbase that actually play STO, in contrast to the much larger percentage of fans who went to see the TNG films), and that he thought that might have been a mistake and that he should have shown the E instead. Well, duh, Terry.

If you were running things, would you want your new ship to succeed a well-liked, historied ship that should arguably still be in service...or would you rather have it take over from a ship with zero emotional connection and less-loved design? Which approach leads to the most people embracing the Ent-G as it is?

Ignoring for a minute the completely convoluted mess that was Shaw's ship (is it a brand-new ship? Is it a refit of the old Titan? Is it both? Is it neither? ), the fact of the matter is that the Enterprise-D was the real star of the show. What they did with the other Enterprises was inconsequential. The only ships that mattered were the Titan-A and the Enterprise-D. I would rather they had not made the Titan-A an Enterprise at all, and just left it the hell alone. If you wanted a new Enterprise, Terry, and you had a hardon for the 'Constitution III' class, just make the next Enterprise a new Connie III.

 

[The Gatekeeper]

They could have just redressed the Titan’s bridge, just like it was a redress of the Stargazer’s bridge. They would not have needed to slavishly recreate the Enterprise-E’s bridge from the films. The audience would just have assumed it was upgraded from its last appearance twenty years before, if they would have even cared about it at all. The Ent-F’s bridge was shown for like 20 seconds total.

And indeed, the Enterprise F's bridge was a redress of the Titan's bridge anyway.

Ignoring for a minute the completely convoluted mess that was Shaw's ship (is it a brand-new ship? Is it a refit of the old Titan? Is it both? Is it neither? )

Regarding the part about it being referred to as a "refit" I don't think Matalas knows what that word meant. In season 2 the Stargazer is referred to as a refit of Picard's Stargazer, yet in season 3 we see Picard's Stargazer at the Fleet Museum.

But yeah, it really was a mess the way they talked about the Titan A. It's a "new ship" but is apparently also twenty years old, from an era where most of its crew don't know how to properly manually open the nacelles or whatever it was that Shaw and Seven had to see to personally despite the fact that he's recovering from nearly dying and she's suspended for attempted mutiny since they're the only ones on the ship old enough to be familiar with technology that old. Riker also comments the ship has the "new ship smell" despite the fact he apparently commanded it until five years earlier when he turned command over to Shaw.

The writing was really sloppy on season 3.

 

[James Cole]

They could have just redressed the Titan’s bridge, just like it was a redress of the Stargazer’s bridge. They would not have needed to slavishly recreate the Enterprise-E’s bridge from the films. The audience would just have assumed it was upgraded from its last appearance twenty years before, if they would have even cared about it at all. The Ent-F’s bridge was shown for like 20 seconds total.

Fair point, but maybe they just didn't want to deal with trying to explain it or deal with potential fan backlash over destroying the E-E on screen?

Regarding the part about it being referred to as a "refit" I don't think Matalas knows what that word meant. In season 2 the Stargazer is referred to as a refit of Picard's Stargazer, yet in season 3 we see Picard's Stargazer at the Fleet Museum.

I think the whole refit thing is a clumsy way of trying to square the circle of having the Titan be Riker's old ship but with the Neo-Constitution design. If the novelverse Titan hadn't appeared in STLD, they probably would have said the Titan looked like that since 2379. And according to Dave Blass, the original plan was to have the Stargazer in season 3, not the Titan.