Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Aldo, Aug 9, 2013.

  1. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I guess I just feel it fits Odrade's character more to have her recounting that part of the story. Using any of the Duncans will always be tricky as they're often at the centre of events and (at that point) his other memories weren't serial. I suppose an argument could be made for the last narrator to be that Duncan because he really did live (and die) through the whole thing.

    That actually reminds me, back when I first read Chapterhouse one of my pet theories about the two face dancers at the end was that they'd unlocked ALL of other memory and were in essence, the personification of all of human history.

    Anyone crazy enough to adapt all those books shouldn't worry about confusing the audience. That's a given! ;)
    Seriously though, making the the identity of the narrator and their relation to the events part of the ongoing intrigue, can be a good way to draw an audience in if done right.

    Of course done badly it can totally break the pacing an immersion and totally wreck the narrative. Like most things, it's all in the execution.

    Plus daisy chaining them like that is a good way to maintain a continuity of storytelling, especially when decades or millennia can pass between movies. For example, if you start GEoD with someone from the post-scattering period talk about Leto II in relation to the time they're now in, it gives the audience a slightly gentler lead-in to the subsequent story before the current one has even began.

    In short, it lends a larger sense of context and avoids the plodding, almost aimless "and then this happened" type of linear story telling.

    I'm pretty sure I read some where they'd already stared work on Dune 2 & 3 when the film hit theatres. Not sure if that was just early drafts of the scripts or actual pre-production. Also not sure if "Dune 2 & 3" would have been Messiah & Children or if they would have chosen to roll those two together and make God Emperor the third film. I suspect the latter because honestly, knowing Lynch I think he would have been *dying* to get to the giant man-worm film. ;)
     
  2. Kirkman1987

    Kirkman1987 Commodore Commodore

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    I believe Lynch was in the process of writing the script for Dune Messiah when it became clear it wouldn't be needed.

    I wish he had been given the chance to do it but won't complain too much since he was able to do the superb Blue Velvet instead.
     
  3. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    I wonder how he'd have written Irulan... like the sympathetic character in the TV miniseries, or the ice bitch-conspirator that FH wrote her as?

    His first version of Dune Messiah had her being killed off by Fremen fanatics at the end; I'm glad he changed his mind. Otherwise, we'd never have seen Julie Cox's fantastic interpretation of the character.
     
  4. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I never got the same "ice bitch" impression from Irulan that you did. For me Cox's interpretation of the character was reasonably faithful. Sure, if you just look at her actions it seems cold, but then you could say the same about a lot of what Leto I did and he's generally considered to be a (literally) noble and charismatic leader.

    The tragedy of Irulan is that she's caught between forces beyond her control and put in an impossible position. On the one hand there's her loyalty to her father and her Bene Gesserit training while on the other she's married to a man whom she genuinely loves deep down but who only has her for her name and only tolerates her presence out of pity.

    In this whole thing she had one choice of her own to make and she instantly regretted it and spent the rest of her life in service to Paul's children.
     
  5. lurok

    lurok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The hand-dialogue scene between Cox and Krige in CoD is one of my favourites and one of the first that I thought really visually/dramatically captured what Herbert had written about BG ways in his books.

    The Madsen Irulan opening narration - the way it's shot and edited and use of music - is one of my favourite bits of movie intro exposition. But I know many disagree :).
     
  6. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Irulan's treatment in the books kind of felt strange if you think about it. I mean, Paul was the one who forced the marriage yet he's the one that resents her and acts like it's HER fault. So she's left totally alone, loves a guy who holds her in utter disdain, doesn't even bother taking a lover of her own, etc. Yet the text treats her like she's the bad guy.
     
  7. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    I thought it a bit tiresome with her constantly fading out and then back in again to say "Oh, and one other thing..."
     
  8. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^If you found the film tiresome at that point, how ever did you make it all the way through the rest of the film!? :lol:
     
  9. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That was a very memorable scene imo. It definitely stuck to my mind after watching the movie.
     
  10. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Obviously, I'm not really a big fan of the Lynch movie.
     
  11. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    At this point, I'm going to recommend Ed Naha's excellent book The Making of Dune. It's a fascinating behind-the-scenes look at what went into writing, casting, and filming the movie, with extensive comments by the actors, writers, producers, technicians and, of course, Frank Herbert himself.

    There were so many parts of the novel that were actually filmed that never made it onscreen. Basically, as I recall, they never filmed the banquet scene... and that was it. They filmed everything else, but had to pick and choose what would fit into less than 3 hours.
     
  12. Aldo

    Aldo Admiral Admiral

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    That's too bad, the banquet was one of my favorite parts of the book.
     
  13. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Herbert himself said he got why they cut things, he said something about how "It'd be a 14 hour butt killer" otherwise.
     
  14. Kirkman1987

    Kirkman1987 Commodore Commodore

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    I wonder how much more is really out there? The Third Stage fanedit adds in the extended edition scenes (minus prologue and the added bits Lynch himself didn't shoot) and the deleted scenes that were included in the special features. That runs just under three hours.

    I do know that Lynch typically shoots a ton of footage that is never used. Wild at heart, Blue Velvet, and the Twin peaks film all have something like 45-60 minutes of deleted scenes each.

    I need to pick up a used copy of that book sometime. I've heard good things about it.
     
  15. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Most of the movie was shot in Mexico, and they literally had to build a whole new studio down there first. The book recounts how many of the actors and techs suffered from gastrointestinal problems, so I'm not surprised they didn't shoot the banquet scene.

    I know it's available on Amazon.ca, so it's probably also available on the American Amazon site.
     
  16. lurok

    lurok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've read the Naha book and it is one of the best behind-the-scenes/making ofs I've read. I was also wondering if the infamous dump they filmed in is the same one Elysium used? Wasn't the studio Churubusco or something? (just going on memory).

    There's also some great Super 8 behind-the-scenes stuff with the actors (Sean Young in particular) on YouTube.
     
  17. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I suddenly have a very unpleasant image of what happens when fifty odd people suffering from gastrointestinal distress are made to stand out in the desert in full body black rubber suits...eww.
     
  18. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's what the thigh pads are for.
     
  19. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But what about body heat? You'd COOK inside one of those suits.
     
  20. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^Contrary to common perception, deserts can be shockingly cold...but yeah, on the off chance it's hot like a desert is supposed to be, I can see people getting seriously dehydrated in those things. Doubly so if they'd just spent half the night on the loo.