Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Admiral_Young, Nov 9, 2010.
Well, come on. "The spice expands consciousness." Surely not a drug reference of any kind.
I read that John Harrison started a script for "God Emperor of Dune" but Sci-Fi pulled the plug when he was a third through it citing budget reasons. I will agree that a "God Emperor of Dune" project would be difficult to adaption. The sheer scope and size of it combined with the philosophical discussion it touches upon would be hard to recreate and have an audience understand without losing the audience. Much of the book is Leto's reflections on his experiences and the human condition in general. I don't think you could get rid of any of it either because it's critical to the book's charm and point. It is just my favorite of the series and I would love to see it be brought to either the small or big screens one day.
I think it's too dense to even be a miniseries. But if it was made into a TV show I fear it would be canceled before the end of a single season. Just too out there for most people.
It's 99% Duncan (a ghola), Siona, and Leto II (a giant worm/human) talking.... kind of like an expensive Being Human.
Yeah, that's exactly the problem - modern audiences wouldn't give it a chance to develop. I like the idea you mentioned, Robert Maxwell, in your post about the non-linear background filler script as a mini-series... That could make it a lot more filmable and maybe even touch on the philosophical aspects of the book in a much more film-friendly way. It'd be a tough one to figure out and make watchable for sure.
A friend and I attempted to adapt the book and we got through a hundred pages of it before we decided to stop. It was just too hard and complex to decide what to keep and what to dump.
Incidentally there hasn't been any news on the "Dune" movie in a while. The most recent draft was completed a few months ago I think. Forgot the guy's name who was writing it. Josh Zetumer's treatment was just horrid as I think I've mentioned before. He wanted to combine the characters of Gurney and Duncan! Showing a clear misunderstanding of the importance of both these characters, particularly Duncan.
We're going to miss having another adaptation of Dune?
I hated God Emperor. It took me 15 years to read that book, but I was determined to finish it. And I can't really say I was glad I did. For me, God Emperor marked a turning point for Dune. I just wasn't that interested in what came afterward. However, I did like some of the prequel books written by Brian Herbert, but I had no interest in finishing Heretics or starting Chapterhouse.
Turning God Emperor into a movie would be pretty tough, however, not impossible. IMO, they would have to beef up Siona's role more, show Leto being tyrannical in addition to be philosophical, and throw some more assassination attempts or other stuff to pump up the action. Maybe even bring in the Honored Matres.
Wow, that's the first time I've heard someone admit to liking the prequel novels...
Some of the prequel books were fine. Like the House books despite the continuity glitches that Pinky and the Brain explained away. The Butlerian Jihad was the worst. The recent books "Paul of Dune" and it's sequel were great. I was really looking forward to "Leto of Dune" which would have finally depicted the events of the God Emperor's reign.
House Atreides was the only one that came close to being readable, the other ones were so far off base they were painful to read. I haven't read past the House books because they were so bad it just wasn't worth it.
I liked the House series for the most part. I really liked House Atreides. House Harkonnen was just okay, but could've been much better, and I thought House Corrino was a decent wrap up. I enjoyed the look back and the fleshing out of the backstories of many characters including Baron Harkonnen and Shaddam IV.
I couldn't get into the Butlerian Jihad, nor the two that followed Chapterhouse. I've read half of Paul of Dune and I liked it so far, but haven't finished it.
Perhaps I just like the characters from the first three original Dune books. I also enjoyed how the prequels added more of a role for Irulan. Granted, the prequels weren't as deep as Frank Herbert's works, but in many ways I found them more accessible. I also liked many of the little quotes heading the chapters.
Their finale to the original series was shite. Hated it...
When it comes to Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson's books, I actually don't mind them.
The House trilogy is pretty decent. House Atreides was excellent. House Harkonnen suffers from "middle syndrome." But I thought House Corrino was awesome!
The Jihad trilogy was rather underwhelming. The Butlerina Jihad itself was an excellent book, but The Machine Crusade and The Battle of Corrin were pretty forgettable.
Hunters of Dune was a fine book, while Sandworms of Dune was okay but took too long to get to the point.
Paul of Dune and Winds of Dune were actually surpringly enjoyable given my initial fears that they would be a prequel too far.
Hope you can excuse/forgive my noob ignorance *facepalm*
I've never read the LoTR books but enjoyed the film trilogy for what it was: epic fantasy, with good characters, acting, sfx, etc. I'm sure probably missed something by not having read them but frankly not that bothered.
Same for Dune. First saw the miniseries, which I did find confusing and I must say a little 'cheesy' (esp in costumes, acting, backdrops, etc). Then Children of Dune, which I think was a HUGE improvement. Better directed and shot, better fx, better cast (Krige as Jessica) and loved the main actors as Alia, Leto and Ghanima(sp?). And Irulan I'd also read a lot in interim about the Lynch Dune, so have seen several versions of that. I can understand why people say the original TV series more faithful (because it has more time?), but visually and thematically I thought the Lynch version vastly superior, even given its age. In a parallel universe I'd love to see an epic film or TV series that combines the best elements of Lynch's Dune and the CoD series. But more than anything, the ending of CoD really made me want to see more. I was fascinated by what Leto was undergoing, and the political powerplay and feel left on a bit of a cliffhanger. Yeah, I can read the book, I know. Anyway, I've googled stuff on God Emperor, and I'm still bemused why people thinks it's unfilmable. I personally don't think any book is unfilmable. People have said that about a lot of books. All it needs is the time, dedication and talent to get it right.
Oh...(Lynch Irulan moment)...I forgot. Not bothered about a Dune remake, but agree with others here that has to be someone who has style, and can balance character/acting with sfx.
The Lynch movie suffers mostly from being too short to properly serve the story. But aside from that, there are certain issues that defy logic. First and foremost, why the hell are the stillsuits black? That has got to be really uncomfortable on a desert planet. And where they hell is the head gear the books mention? People's heads sweat, seems like a waste of moisture to me. And finally, the less said about the ending the better.
While admittedly Lynch Dune has some really fine moments, it's hard for me to count all the ways it totally fucked up. Yes, it was too short, by which I mean it didn't cover all of what it should have, but also it took too many liberties, almost all of them unnecessary. A lot of the unnecessary embellishments, certainly at least 30 minutes, and maybe even up to an hour, could have been cut from the get-go to save money, and development and running time, in order to focus on interesting stuff from the book that was dropped, and not to mention better effects.
Instead of the flying bricks that they were in the film, I wanted the ornithopters to look more like this:
I loved the design of Lynch stillsuits and assumed they were black because looked cool Better looking than tv ones. And I liked touch that Kynes and other Fremen ones more sandy as more worn. Assume also had no headgear as again just looked cool and can see actors. Though I do concede that yes, for practical purposes in sustained deep desert should have been totally covered. But iirc there are quite a few scenes in tv versions where uncovered also?
As for Lynch ending, I know from tv series that's controversial as not in book. But I can just about buy it as: 1) the film self-contained story with no sequel due so gives sense of Paul's super-awesomeness, and fulfills the story element of changing the face of Arrakis. The fact rain comes ex-decades/centuries later doesn't bother me here It provides closure here.
I liked the ornithopters in both film and TV shows and thought quite similar in lots of ways, so assumed quite faithful to book? Although the tv show ones better simply because of technology.
I've seen a quite good 3hr fanedit of Lynch Dune which puts in quite a bit of stuff that was in the orig tv series: the spitting on floor, more Paul and the Fremen, and that made a lot more sense. I'm not sure what people generally consider the unnecessary embellishments, but I thought Lynch did quite a good job stripping what is clearly an epic story (if tv series anything to go by) down to two hours. Clearly something has to give. And like I said before, considering the age difference, there are somethings I think he just got better than tv series - the Emperor and court; the weirdness of Guild Navigator(s); the Bene Gesserit; the Mentats. Maybe it's just me, but I always felt like the director of CoD actually went back to Lynch's Dune to give it more of that atmosphere that was missing from orig tv series.
One question that's always bugged me: why are there Mentats if people have machines (Paul's 'iPads', various dune craft and spaceships). Isn't there supposed to be some sort of ban on machines?
An ornithopter is an aircraft that flies by flapping its wings as a bird does.
It's thinking machines that are banned. I seem to recall that exceptions are made for the limited abilities of combat training devices and storage devices used for teaching purposes.
thanks. Didn't realise was that literal. But I guess makes sense for a planet like Arrakis...
So what's a thinking machine? I assume computer? So wouldn't the examples I cited above use computers, or parts thereof?
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