Dumbest Things in Star Trek the Motion Picture
- Thread starter urrutiap
- Start date
I would have added a 15th entry.
Spock Does Everyone's Job
How can Spock know about the engineering difficulties of the Enterprise when, as Decker stated, is an almost totally new Enterprise? Why couldn't Scotty just fix it himself and simply have Spock arrive during the downtime?
And what about Uhura, the supposed 'Communications Officer' who winds up not being the one who communicates with V'Ger to save the Enterprise? Would it have been too much of a stretch if Uhura took Spock's words of 'We have been contacted' to heart and discover the signal she had initially missed? Would have been a great moment had she also used her 'Communications Station' to send the friendship message to V'Ger. You could even have her deliver the line "I would say that was a logical assumption Captain". But instead, she does nothing.
I get that Spock is an important character in this story, but giving specific moments to other characters would not have diminished him in the slightest. He does after all have many more moments by himself later on in the movie.
Spock Does Everyone's Job
How can Spock know about the engineering difficulties of the Enterprise when, as Decker stated, is an almost totally new Enterprise? Why couldn't Scotty just fix it himself and simply have Spock arrive during the downtime?
And what about Uhura, the supposed 'Communications Officer' who winds up not being the one who communicates with V'Ger to save the Enterprise? Would it have been too much of a stretch if Uhura took Spock's words of 'We have been contacted' to heart and discover the signal she had initially missed? Would have been a great moment had she also used her 'Communications Station' to send the friendship message to V'Ger. You could even have her deliver the line "I would say that was a logical assumption Captain". But instead, she does nothing.
I get that Spock is an important character in this story, but giving specific moments to other characters would not have diminished him in the slightest. He does after all have many more moments by himself later on in the movie.
I haven't had a chance to check this out yet...but it makes me nervous, because I've always felt the following very strongly:
You can say what you want about TMP, but it always has seemed like the LEAST structurally flawed (plot-holes, internal inconsistencies, etc) film in the entire franchise.
You can say what you want about TMP, but it always has seemed like the LEAST structurally flawed (plot-holes, internal inconsistencies, etc) film in the entire franchise.
My work computer blocks the site: can any one post a summary?
-the Enterprise being the only ship in interception range
-Kirk demoting Decker
-transporter beaming nonsense especially the malfunction
-Deltan safe sex celibacy nonsense
-Voyager 6's black hole
-Too soon? Levity after Ilia gets nuked from the energy probe thingy
-Vger's text message
-Probe Couture such as in Ilia wearing the bathrobe
-Kirk's spacewalk
-Where everyone knows your name (small universe syndrome)
-The navel gazing crew
-Vger's nameplate hygiene
-the Enterprise's time clock flipper thing
-the Klingons shooting first at Vger
-Kirk demoting Decker
-transporter beaming nonsense especially the malfunction
-Deltan safe sex celibacy nonsense
-Voyager 6's black hole
-Too soon? Levity after Ilia gets nuked from the energy probe thingy
-Vger's text message
-Probe Couture such as in Ilia wearing the bathrobe
-Kirk's spacewalk
-Where everyone knows your name (small universe syndrome)
-The navel gazing crew
-Vger's nameplate hygiene
-the Enterprise's time clock flipper thing
-the Klingons shooting first at Vger
Haha, yes. TMP is my favorite Trek film, but it does have some huge plot holes.
I often wondered about the transporter malfunction. I mean, everyone up to that point seemed to be aware the Enterprise's transporters were not working properly. You would think Starfleet Headquarters or wherever Sonak and his companion (said to be a vice-Admiral in the novel) would have been aware of that and found alternatives to reach the ship. Someone really dropped the ball there.
Also the grade reduction for Decker to commander seemed unnecessary and punitive. Even if Kirk assumed command as he did, why wouldn't Decker retain his rank. There have been many instances of 2 captains serving on the same ship. Hell, in future movies Spock is never demoted. He retains his captain's rank despite serving under Captain Kirk for several years on the Enterprise-A.
And the Klingons going right into attack mode doesn't seem to make sense. Though I suppose it's in keeping with their portrayal in the original series as warmongers. Attack first, ask questions later. But they make a good point that it was heading to Earth. You'd think the Klingons would be happy to just let it go on its merry way. I was happy the director's edition edited the size of V'Ger to 2 AU's. That's still huge and would still dwarf the Klingon vessels, and the Enterprise for that matter. But 82 AU's just seemed impossibly large. How would a cloud that size even navigate through a star system without taking it out. Space is vast but Jesus, that'd almost be an unmanageable size and not really all that logical anyway. I mean, why would it need to be so impossibly huge to succeed in its mission in the first place?
They could probably do that for all 13 movies. Every Star Trek film has huge plot holes and some ridiculous things going on. TMP is certainly not alone.
I often wondered about the transporter malfunction. I mean, everyone up to that point seemed to be aware the Enterprise's transporters were not working properly. You would think Starfleet Headquarters or wherever Sonak and his companion (said to be a vice-Admiral in the novel) would have been aware of that and found alternatives to reach the ship. Someone really dropped the ball there.
Also the grade reduction for Decker to commander seemed unnecessary and punitive. Even if Kirk assumed command as he did, why wouldn't Decker retain his rank. There have been many instances of 2 captains serving on the same ship. Hell, in future movies Spock is never demoted. He retains his captain's rank despite serving under Captain Kirk for several years on the Enterprise-A.
And the Klingons going right into attack mode doesn't seem to make sense. Though I suppose it's in keeping with their portrayal in the original series as warmongers. Attack first, ask questions later. But they make a good point that it was heading to Earth. You'd think the Klingons would be happy to just let it go on its merry way. I was happy the director's edition edited the size of V'Ger to 2 AU's. That's still huge and would still dwarf the Klingon vessels, and the Enterprise for that matter. But 82 AU's just seemed impossibly large. How would a cloud that size even navigate through a star system without taking it out. Space is vast but Jesus, that'd almost be an unmanageable size and not really all that logical anyway. I mean, why would it need to be so impossibly huge to succeed in its mission in the first place?
They could probably do that for all 13 movies. Every Star Trek film has huge plot holes and some ridiculous things going on. TMP is certainly not alone.
Thanks.
Agreed.
Well, he was taking command of the ship...
How was that dumb?
I found that more silly than dumb.
Black hole/wormhole, patayto/potahto...
Atonal, but again I think the use of "dumb" is throwing me.
What about it?
They couldn't very well have her naked if they wanted the G/PG rating.
What about it?
How so?
How so?
What about it?
What about it?
That seems a rather Klingon thing to do...
Agreed.
Well, he was taking command of the ship...
How was that dumb?
I found that more silly than dumb.
Black hole/wormhole, patayto/potahto...
Atonal, but again I think the use of "dumb" is throwing me.
What about it?
They couldn't very well have her naked if they wanted the G/PG rating.
What about it?
How so?
How so?
What about it?
What about it?
That seems a rather Klingon thing to do...
Yeah most of these are just gaps in the narrative rather than being dumb. I agree that it was unnecessary to demote Decker. It has been pointed out that that there are no STARSHIPS in interception range, although I accept that this also seems unlikely. Given the distance from Klingon space and the friction between the two, it seems unlikely that there would be no other starships nearby. but space is big and V'Ger is moving very fast in the other direction. This is still less dumb than Trek 09, where the entire fleet is out of communication with Federation planets.
As for the others, they are mostly explained away through implication. We don't know what else V'Ger did in Klingon space. Use of the transporter was riskier while not all the safety settings were working but a power surge was a one in a million event that a back up circuit would have prevented. Scotty didn't think much of it beforehand. The transporters were likely being used even though Kirk wasn't transported in, for cargo and equipment, and judged safe to use while repairs were ongoing. Kirk made a choice to put a bath robe on Ilia in a split second decision but she was hot - he might have been double checking that her temperature had reached a safe level.
Well to be honest when you get a chance and you can access the site I'd read the actual article. Then the 'dumbness' starts to make more sense. Like Kirk's spacewalk for example. The authors do make a good point that if Spock can access the inner workings, why didn't they send a probe in at least. And then what did Kirk think he was going to do without a thruster pack for himself. It was just pure luck V'Ger spit Spock out or Kirk would have just floated there forever. So when taken in the context each point starts to make more sense.
Actually, I think there is more logic to Spock's spacewalk than they give credit for. A probe is a device to which V'Ger might pay attention. A carbon unit is just space flotsam. Spock fires his rockets briefly and then drifts on momentum only. He records but does not transmit his observations. He is intentionally drifting under the radar, being guided by his link to V'Ger.
Kirk's spacewalk makes less sense. He has no way of tracking Spock plus he requires more oxygen than Spock. Any pursuit would be folly so instead he hangs around outside the ship for how long? It looks odd.
I did a fan edit using the rough footage of the Memory Wall where Kirk and Rand follow Spock inside at a much slower pace with equipment to set up a transporter relay to allow them all to beam back to the ship. They're forced to use a tricorder to try and track Spock and that tips off V'Ger to their presence. They effectively meet Spock half way, which means that at least Kirk looks like he is troubleshooting and doing something instead of just hanging around outside the ship for an hour or so.
I don't think that would have added anything to the story, but other movies of the era such as Clash of the Titans, The Andromeda Strain, and Logan's Run managed to include it at the G/PG/GP level.
Kor
We can assume the opening scene of three Klingon battle cruisers attacking Vger was their first encounter, but we don’t know that for a certainty. If it flew through Klingon space then it could well have been the Klingons’ final attack against Vger.
Given how easily Vger dispatched the Klingon warships it could be deduced no Federation starships roughly equivalent with the Enterprise were in interception range. It would be a pointless waste of lives to dispatch lesser vessels to deal with such a threat.
One could also consider a gap in the narrative that Epsilon 9 wasn’t the only Federation asset lost to Vger. Maybe other Federation ships tried and were wiped out just like the Klingon battle cruisers.
Given how easily Vger dispatched the Klingon warships it could be deduced no Federation starships roughly equivalent with the Enterprise were in interception range. It would be a pointless waste of lives to dispatch lesser vessels to deal with such a threat.
One could also consider a gap in the narrative that Epsilon 9 wasn’t the only Federation asset lost to Vger. Maybe other Federation ships tried and were wiped out just like the Klingon battle cruisers.
That's a good point. The Enterprise might have been the most powerful ship in the fleet at that moment, with all the latest upgrades, and the only one with shields strong enough to stand a chance.
In TOS we know of at least two starships equivalent to the Enterprise that did something wrong the led to their destruction: Constellation and Intrepid.
The Constellation pressed its attack when it should have been apparent early on it was hopelessly outmatched. The smart action would have been to withdraw and alert Star Fleet Command—exactly what Spock proposed. It was only Decker’s suicide that provided the clue as to how to possibly destroy the planet killer.
It wasn’t lesser technology and hardware that led to the Intrepid’s destruction. As Kirk said the Intrepid’s crew might not have tried everything the Enterprise’s crew were trying.
The refit Enterprise could still have been destroyed had the crew acted otherwise than how they had.
The Constellation pressed its attack when it should have been apparent early on it was hopelessly outmatched. The smart action would have been to withdraw and alert Star Fleet Command—exactly what Spock proposed. It was only Decker’s suicide that provided the clue as to how to possibly destroy the planet killer.
It wasn’t lesser technology and hardware that led to the Intrepid’s destruction. As Kirk said the Intrepid’s crew might not have tried everything the Enterprise’s crew were trying.
The refit Enterprise could still have been destroyed had the crew acted otherwise than how they had.
The cloud was described as an energy field. It was probably a side-effect of V'Ger traveling at warp speed, so it faded as it slowed down.
how about you just go to the website to read the stuff yourself instead of forcing me to type out the frikkin long list? My hands hurt by typing all that crap
I generally can excuse most issues with TMP. For example, you can lean into the Organian Peace Treaty for the only ship in range thing (ie, the UFP using the Empire as a shield so that approach vector is lightly defended because of the treaty.)
But the transporter accident is stupid. The movie establishes that they aren't working before the starship porn ride and they aren't still working when Kirk kicks Decker out of Engineering. In fact, Kirk interrupts the troubleshooting process.
So there shouldn't any effing body in the Transporter Room actually trying to use it.
But the transporter accident is stupid. The movie establishes that they aren't working before the starship porn ride and they aren't still working when Kirk kicks Decker out of Engineering. In fact, Kirk interrupts the troubleshooting process.
So there shouldn't any effing body in the Transporter Room actually trying to use it.
Similar threads
- Locked
