Dumb and Bizarre Trek Novel Moments...

[Myasishchev]

This is why "Children of Time" is a worse episode than "Let He Who is Without Sin."

Somewhat off-topic, but what is your criticism of Children of Time, precisely?

From memory this episode deals with some of the questions you outlined in your earlier post, i.e. who's to say which version of the universe is better?

It's a haphazard morality play which accepts that individual wills are to be bent to suit not just the rights of contemporaries, but the rights of potential people. This logic is applicable without time travel being involved, obviously--and I don't think its necessary corollaries were intended.

Oh, back to bizarreness in Destiny--the Columbia spends a lot of time at high impulse, close to c, and subject to dangerously blueshifted radiation. Now, one or the other of these things is true--impulse is a newtonian, reaction-based and relativistically-limited drive, and thus Columbia does not have near the reaction mass to accelerate itself to anything like near-c speeds; or, it is a non-relativistic drive, and blueshift and time dilation should not apply. Others understand the science better, so can correct me if I am wrong, but I'm pretty sure you can't pick and choose.

 

[flemm]

It's a haphazard morality play which accepts that individual wills are to be bent to suit not just the rights of contemporaries, but the rights of potential people. This logic is applicable without time travel being involved, obviously--and I don't think its necessary corollaries were intended.

Heh, it's been a while since I saw the episode, but I don't recall it being a morality play at all in the sense that neither outcome was presented as the undeniably correct one from a moral point of view. Anyway I'd like to hear your analysis in more detail at some point, maybe in one of the DS9 rewatch threads.

 

[Myasishchev]

But then I might have to watch it again and step back from my extremist opinions.

 

[Garm Bel Iblis]

on to a new DUMB\BIZZARE
in the wounded sky, didnt the new warp drive cause supenovas? YIKES!

 

[flemm]

But then I might have to watch it again and step back from my extremist opinions.

You never know

 

[F. King Daniel]

on to a new DUMB\BIZZARE
in the wounded sky, didnt the new warp drive cause supenovas? YIKES!

IIRC the first supernova was caused by ships doing normal warp speeds nearby to a star.

Could you imagine the insane suicidal wars that would result? The galaxy would be filled with bitter, black-clad, tattooed maniacs of all species lamenting the firey deaths of their loved ones, floating around in their war machine octopii


I thought the ending of The Wounded Sky was probably the most bizarre thing in Treklit history, yet the majority around here like to call it flowery things like "trancendant"

 

[Hartzilla2007]

on to a new DUMB\BIZZARE
in the wounded sky, didnt the new warp drive cause supenovas? YIKES!

IIRC the first supernova was caused by ships doing normal warp speeds nearby to a star.

Could you imagine the insane suicidal wars that would result? The galaxy would be filled with bitter, black-clad, tattooed maniacs of all species lamenting the firey deaths of their loved ones, floating around in their war machine octopii

Meh, their mostly harmless without red matter gum balls to implode planets with.

 

[Christopher]

Oh, back to bizarreness in Destiny--the Columbia spends a lot of time at high impulse, close to c, and subject to dangerously blueshifted radiation. Now, one or the other of these things is true--impulse is a newtonian, reaction-based and relativistically-limited drive, and thus Columbia does not have near the reaction mass to accelerate itself to anything like near-c speeds; or, it is a non-relativistic drive, and blueshift and time dilation should not apply. Others understand the science better, so can correct me if I am wrong, but I'm pretty sure you can't pick and choose.

Impulse means pushing, so anything called an "impulse engine" has got to be Newtonian. The TOS writers' bible makes it explicit that impulse engines are the "same principle as rocket power." The TNG Tech Manual's revised version of impulse propulsion includes a space-time driver coil that "(1) reduces the apparent mass of the spacecraft at its inner surface, and (2) facilitates the slippage of the continuum past the spacecraft at its outer surface." But it's still described as being based on thrust and subject to special-relativistic effects such as time dilation (which is why normal impulse operations are limited to below 0.25c), so I'd guess that means it makes the ship lighter and easier to accelerate by thrust. Anyway, it says this version of impulse drive wasn't introduced until the Ambassador class, so it wouldn't be relevant to Columbia NX-02. Presumably its impulse drive was pure fusion rockets.

Now, you have a point about the reaction mass. Realistically, Columbia would've had to adapt its impulse engines to draw fuel from the Bussard collectors, and even then it would've been difficult to achieve the level of acceleration posited. But that's where poetic license comes in.

 

[TerraUnam]

Don't we already get poetic license with shuttlecraft that can hover with no apparent vertical rocket? Or artificial gravity? C'mon people, the First Law of Science Fiction is don't let physics get in the way of a good plot device.

 

[Graywand2]

A dumb Trek Novel moment for me was Corporal Hideaki Chang's headbutting with Ensign Mayweather in Last Full Measure. Mayweather was the commissioned officer, Chang wasn't. He wasn't even a fairly high-ranking NCO. He was a corporal. Mayweather should have been able to put his foot down and end the discussion with one order.

 

[Garm Bel Iblis]

Dont' even get me started on the way the MACOs were handled by the Wonder Twins in those books. You'll get me on another Needs of the Many rant.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

A moment that's made me go "Huh?" is Mayweather leaving the Enterprise. It just felt off, and only seemed, to me, to set him up for taking the position on the other ships that get destroyed.

 

[TerraUnam]

Well, how else is the Endeavour supposed to get Major Character Immunity?

 

[Christopher]

More to the point, how else is the audience going to invest in the adventures of other ships and crews? It makes sense to move a few of the regulars off NX-01 and out into the broader context of the war, rather than expect it all to be told from the perspective of unfamiliar characters.

And let's face it, it's not like Travis was accomplishing much on NX-01. At least this gives him something to do.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

More to the point, how else is the audience going to invest in the adventures of other ships and crews? It makes sense to move a few of the regulars off NX-01 and out into the broader context of the war, rather than expect it all to be told from the perspective of unfamiliar characters.

Perhaps, although when Destiny showed the Borg Crisis and the various ships being destroyed, I liked seeing the...well, they weren't unfamiliar, but less-familiar characters. Oh well.

And let's face it, it's not like Travis was accomplishing much on NX-01. At least this gives him something to do.

I suppose...although the same argument could be made for Hoshi as well.

 

[Christopher]

Perhaps, although when Destiny showed the Borg Crisis and the various ships being destroyed, I liked seeing the...well, they weren't unfamiliar, but less-familiar characters.

And BTRW did that too, with its use of T'Pau, Soval, Shran, Tholis, Gannet Brooks, and other notable or recurring guest characters from ENT. But Destiny had the advantage of having multiple TV series to draw on, so it could easily have not just recurring and new players but regulars participating in major events throughout the crisis. In ENT, you've only got one regular crew to draw on, so spreading them out helps achieve a similar balance.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

I suppose.

I still feel it was an odd thing, and it felt completely artificial.

 

[JarodRussell]

More to the point, how else is the audience going to invest in the adventures of other ships and crews?

If the new ships and crews and their actions are interesting...

 

[Christopher]

I suppose.

I still feel it was an odd thing, and it felt completely artificial.

Whereas I felt it was a natural outgrowth of what happened in Kobayashi Maru. It makes sense that Travis would have difficulty staying under Archer's command after the decision he made in the climax of KM. And that provides a natural opportunity to use him as a viewpoint character for exploring other facets of the war, and in general gives him more to do than just steering the ship. I found it an elegant move.

 

[TerraUnam]

True, and with Columbia gone, he's the only link we have right now to the rest of Starfleet, unless somebody invests in characterizing a replacement.

And the rest of Starfleet is about to get more important as the new Daedelus ships roll out and Starfleet takes the offensive.