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Dukat's Sweet, Pretty Daughter

Cardassians show romantic interest by acting irritable and angry.
Garak never really acted like that toward Ziyal.

Kor
 
She was innocent but it had to happen.

It's part of what made Dukat such a great character.

He was just on the edge between "good and evil" and that's what made him a truly good villain.
 
Hmm … I'm not so sure. As much as I would like to think that Ziyal was Garak's only love, it seemed the writers went out of their way to make Garak seem non-committal. Even Andrew Robinson seemed to think that no one was interested in elucidating their relationship, and they didn't really want him to mourn her death more than momentarily. If Garak did "the nasty," it was with Ziyal. I think the "sacrifice of angels" makes more sense if she was his lover, especially when they don't reunite like some many others. However, I am at least disappointed that the nature of their relationship wasn't spelled out.

Garak was middle aged even by season 1. He probably "got as much tail" as he wanted back when he was an Obsidian Order agent in good favor, before he was banished from Cardassia.

As far as Ziyal, it certainly could have gone either way. Yes, she had enough of a crush on him, and he was certainly glad to be around a Cardassian woman who liked him. However, she was also innocent and might have wanted to go slow with the physical stuff, and he was looking as much for a companion as a lover. I'm not disappointed that their relationship was left ambiguous; ambiguity makes a more interesting show.
 
I'm not disappointed that their relationship was left ambiguous; ambiguity makes a more interesting show.
Fair enough. I might be thinking backwards a bit, wanting her death to be more meaningful than it was. She didn't even get the honor of being "fridged." She's just forgotten.
 
Garak was middle aged even by season 1. He probably "got as much tail" as he wanted back when he was an Obsidian Order agent in good favor, before he was banished from Cardassia.

As far as Ziyal, it certainly could have gone either way. Yes, she had enough of a crush on him, and he was certainly glad to be around a Cardassian woman who liked him. However, she was also innocent and might have wanted to go slow with the physical stuff, and he was looking as much for a companion as a lover. I'm not disappointed that their relationship was left ambiguous; ambiguity makes a more interesting show.

It's strange being an older man and getting the attention of younger women. As someone who's been in this scenario before, I think you tend to try to like the attention, but in your heart you know you shouldn't encourage it.

So I imagine Garek is in a similar boat.
 
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Fair enough. I might be thinking backwards a bit, wanting her death to be more meaningful than it was. She didn't even get the honor of being "fridged." She's just forgotten.

Her death was remembered as what pushed Dukat over the edge. (Arguably the show would have been more interesting with Ziyal around and Dukat still ambiguously evil with some good in him.)
 
I think Garak realized his relationship with Ziyal could not endure long term. It's always flattering when a pretty young thing has a crush, but she was way too innocent and young to be a good companion for him. .

I agree. I guess Cardassian age fairly quickly. I think Dukat said Ziyal was 13 when we first meet her in season 4(?), but by season 5 or 6, she was already cavorting with Garak. Kind of young, dontcha think, Garak?
 
I don't recall Garak particularly encouraging Ziyal's affections, probably because he thought the age difference was a bit steep as well.

I guess I fall more into the 'friends' than 'lovers' camp.
 
I think Dukat said Ziyal was 13 when we first meet her in season 4(?)
It's Kira who mentions her being thirteen. But that age was listed on the Ravinok's manifest, which crashed six years earlier. So Ziyal should be nineteen when we meet her at the end of Indiscretion, and about 21 or so when she dies.
 
Besides the age difference, there are a whole lot of people who would like to kill or hurt Garak, and he would know that a romantic relationship between them would put a giant target on her back.
 
And the only reason Dukat went to fetch Ziyal in the first place was because he learned that his lover’s ship had been found and felt he had to make sure Ziyal was dead too. Plus the writers were thinking about having Dukat hook up with Kira. What a hot mess that would have been. So glad Visitor said Oh, HELL no!
Why would she say that?
And where did she say it?
 
A hookup with Dukat would have been totally out of character for Kira. It's good when the actors push back against a terrible mistake like that. I think it's in one of the interviews in the DVD bonus features.
 
Yeah, there's no way Kira would ever get past Dukat's evil deeds during the occupation (not to mention the continued indications that he never really changed for the better).

Kor
 
Seriously?
Was "hooking up" even a thing back then?
Didn't it used to be called a one night stand?
I don't remember too many one night stands in DS9.
But I do recall where messing around on one's spouse was considered shameful or disgusting.

In point,
When Kita and Dukat were on the planet looking for Ziyal and Kira shows her disgust about Dukat having his Bajoran woman on the side.

When Miles is talking to the Cardasdian scientist in the Jefferies tube and he says that he is married, and unlike shows now, the woman is angry and then stops making advances.

Quark seems to be mostly a lowlife so he might be less concerned about marriage status of his women.

At any rate I can't recall any hook ups or even one night stands on DS9.

I guess that they didn't want to cheapen the characters.
 
There were fewer one night stands on television, for sure, and exactly what was happening was left a bit ambiguous. (It was a shock to me to start watching The Americans and find simulated sex at least once an episode.) In DS9, there were implications of one night stands between Jadzia and the fire eater from the Lexington, between both Bashir and Leeta and Riasans. Others?
 
There were fewer one night stands on television, for sure, and exactly what was happening was left a bit ambiguous. (It was a shock to me to start watching The Americans and find simulated sex at least once an episode.) In DS9, there were implications of one night stands between Jadzia and the fire eater from the Lexington, between both Bashir and Leeta and Riasans. Others?

Risa was unique.
I don't watch any new shows on TV with the exception of The Orville and Last Man Standing.
Periodically I try, but it doesn't seem to work out.
 
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