DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

[JD5000]

Bad Thoughts, we're in agreement on this...this is what made DS9 progressive and not just good Trek, good television. Casting non-white and non-male leads was a risky move in what was inarguably a largely white male demographic.

I would put good money on the premise that the demographic has changed since DS9.

Not that I give a shit about demographics, but clearly networks do, and that's what gave us this show that most of us liked.

That's what gave 'Fresh Prince' it's run - it didn't just appeal to the demographic of it's lead characters.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

D.S.9. certainly wasn't the worst (that's kind of a tie between Voyager and Enterprise) Trek series, but it's certainly the most overpraised. I watched every episode and that depth was more often than not, topical at best. For a show that became so convoluted in war, it seems the writers just didn't want to be bothered to read about real war in history or even battle tactics, to add realism to the show. Surprisingly the characters that had depth were the ones brought off TNG; even Sisko had less and had there been not wife loss in the Wolf 359 battle, what would we have been left with? Same thing for the strong religious underpinnings of the Bajorin people -- it's almost as if a lot of that was written by people with light to no religious faith.

And for every shit Voyager did on the Borg, D.S.9. did on the Klingons. What a waste.


Now, props are given for defining the Ferengi better and expanding them from cowardly hunched over laser-whip carrying trolls. But Armin's assertion seems to indicate this was more or less his idea.


The bad guys feel wasted, the clash between good and bad often feels empty, so much potential was never seen, and in the end I don't feel anywhere near as satisfied as I was with TNG. And TNG had some weak episodes in the first season, and a number of boring fillers in the last two. And it also had "Code of Honor".



If anything good came out of it, it was the scoring.

I disagree about the relevance about unrealistic military tactics. If you are familiar with realistic military tactics that might irk you but to the average viewer it's not important as long as the logic is internally consistent. And, why do you say that the Bajorans' religiosity is not believable? Why would Bajoran religious worship remind you of human religious worship?

It's true they did give the viewers an out to have the Prophets be 'Wormhole aliens' to them instead of something divine. But again, so?

As for the Klingons, DS9 didn't really do much to them that TNG didn't already do. I definitely would have preferred if the Dominion was presented more like the original plans, having as many different species as the Federation only in a dictatorship instead of a democracy. But they sure gave a lot of depth to all three major Dominion races, more so than most of the other Trek races.

I agree TNG's strongest individual episodes are better than DS9's strongest individual episodes.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Picard with all his flaws never did anything like that.

"I'm not Picard."

Damn, beat me to it

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

To me, they made more hype out of the fact Janeway was a woman than Sisko was black. Having so many aliens in the mix as well also makes for far more interesting characters, I find, as you get more "alien" perspectives, looking at and judging things from a totally different viewpoint that makes you look at your own preconceptions.

 

[JD5000]

To me, they made more hype out of the fact Janeway was a woman than Sisko was black. Having so many aliens in the mix as well also makes for far more interesting characters, I find, as you get more "alien" perspectives, looking at and judging things from a totally different viewpoint that makes you look at your own preconceptions.

Love this post. The only reason I pointed out the black Commander as opposed to the female captain was that this is a 'Why DS9 Sucks' thread.

 

[Horizons96]

DS9 is in many ways my favorite Trek, but the inspirational moments of TNG make it hard to even have a fav.

Anyway, who couldn't like the theme presented which makes us completely question the 'reality' we inhabit?

I'm sure Roddenberry, Braga, Berman, Piller, Behr, Moore et al. all remind us of Benny Russells in their own right, furiously penning an amazing future possibility for humanity...

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

To me, they made more hype out of the fact Janeway was a woman than Sisko was black. Having so many aliens in the mix as well also makes for far more interesting characters, I find, as you get more "alien" perspectives, looking at and judging things from a totally different viewpoint that makes you look at your own preconceptions.

Love this post. The only reason I pointed out the black Commander as opposed to the female captain was that this is a 'Why DS9 Sucks' thread.

Aw shucks, thanks

When we get a new series, if there are seven main characters then at least four should be alien--with one in command.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

To me, they made more hype out of the fact Janeway was a woman than Sisko was black. Having so many aliens in the mix as well also makes for far more interesting characters, I find, as you get more "alien" perspectives, looking at and judging things from a totally different viewpoint that makes you look at your own preconceptions.

If by Berman, Piller and Taylor--yep. On the other hand, flipping around the genders and ethnicities of the actors and the races of the characters would have had more impact on DS9 than the other Trek series. Imagine how different Bashir might have been if Sid presented himself more as the Anglo-Arab his it today (as opposed to the British Thespian he was then).

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

If by Berman, Piller and Taylor--yep. On the other hand, flipping around the genders and ethnicities of the actors and the races of the characters would have had more impact on DS9 than the other Trek series. Imagine how different Bashir might have been if Sid presented himself more as the Anglo-Arab his it today (as opposed to the British Thespian he was then).

Then he'd have been an Anglo-Arab Starfleet medical officer, not really much would change about him except maybe a line here and there.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Does Anglo-Arab Bashir sing "And Did Those Feet in Ancient Times"? Does he identify with the Texas Revolutionaries or the Spartans? Are his interests in curing the Teplan blight merely a matter of medical ethics and professional pride? Bashir wouldn't need to be explicit about his motivations at every point, but subtle variations here and there can greatly enrich a character of time.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Picard with all his flaws never did anything like that.

"I'm not Picard."

Damn, beat me to it

What's so funny about killing children?

 

[RainKing]

If you have to ask...

 

[JD5000]

"No actual children were harmed in the making of this film...."

I guess they cut out that disclaimer.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Sisko did warn them what he was going to do and though they didn't start the evacuations then, there wasn't anything in the following dialogue that said anyone had died on the Maquis outposts.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Sisko did warn them what he was going to do and though they didn't start the evacuations then, there wasn't anything in the following dialogue that said anyone had died on the Maquis outposts.

Yeah, and I suppose that makes it all right for you...


What is it that Sisko told worf in Rules Of Engagement?

"We don't endanger civilians even at the cost of our lives..."

Well, I guess to Sisko, children don't qualify as civilians...


Enough said.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

You know what the truly horrible thing is in that episode? It's that Eddington was absolutely right in everything he said to Sisko and yet he's the one being ridiculed.


Figures.

 

[Inactive-Shapeshifter]

You know what the truly horrible thing is in that episode? It's that Eddington was absolutely right in everything he said to Sisko and yet he's the one being ridiculed.


Figures.

I actually sow that as a good thing. In the way i see it, it was on purpose. So that we could see that Sisko WAS acting only on his emotions. I toke that episode as one of the philosophical ones, as the message was, that everyone have flows, and that the idea that someone that is on the "good" side is, for that matter, better than the one from the "bad" side, can be wrong.

And that we have to be prepared for our emotions, because they can control us and make us go opposite to the things we believe.

 

[dub]

Picard with all his flaws never did anything like that.

What flaws?

 

[Inactive-Shapeshifter]

Picard with all his flaws never did anything like that.

What flaws?

Yeah, that's the hole point, i mean, Picard was like a super hero. He rarely made a mistake, almost never was wrong.
Sisko was just a flowed human, that was, wrong in several occasions. And that's what makes me find DS9 so interesting. Because many of us would behave more like Sisko than Picard.

But i LOVE TNG anyway.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

You know what the truly horrible thing is in that episode? It's that Eddington was absolutely right in everything he said to Sisko and yet he's the one being ridiculed.


Figures.

I actually sow that as a good thing. In the way i see it, it was on purpose. So that we could see that Sisko WAS acting only on his emotions. I toke that episode as one of the philosophical ones, as the message was, that everyone have flows, and that the idea that someone that is on the "good" side is, for that matter, better than the one from the "bad" side, can be wrong.

And that we have to be prepared for our emotions, because they can control us and make us go opposite to the things we believe.

I am sorry but I disagree. This is way beyond being wrong. This is savagery. I can admit Sisko losing his temper or engaging in that ludicrous competition with the smug Vulcan, but THIS, is criminal.

The only reason Sisko wasn't tried for this, demoted, thrown out of Star Fleet and then jailed for a long time is because it is plot convenient and also because one of the writers has the ethics of a village idiot.