DS9 Shark Jumping

[RobertScorpio]

Was there ever moment where you though DS9 almost jumped the shark? Or perhaps there was a point where you did think it jumped the shark and went down hill in quality...

Or, being such the DS9 fan you are did you think it never came close?

Rob

 

[Navaros]

Already a recent thread about this:

http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=53044

 

[JM1776]

I found the introduction of the Breen and its energy-dampening weapon a tremendously facile and silly device (no pun intended). Frankly, despite Damar's rebellion, any competent commander could have parlayed that advantage into a quick victory for the Founders ... and Weyoun's explanation concerning the Cardassian reverence for the rule of law was time on target. In other words, it manifestly doesn't work as a bit of literary legerdemain/reverse psychology justifying that plot direction.

The descent of Dukat into a red-eyed, cackling personification of EEEEVVVIILLL was another seventh-season disappointment—along with the introduction of Ezri Dax, which wasted time, thus detracting from other aspects of the story.

Compared to seasons three through six, thus, the seventh was a disappointment and, if not a shark jump, then a bit of a lamprey leap.

 

[erastus25]

The descent of Dukat into a red-eyed, cackling personification of EEEEVVVIILLL was another seventh-season disappointment—along with the introduction of Ezri Dax, which wasted time, thus detracting from other aspects of the story.

Compared to seasons three through six, thus, the seventh was a disappointment and, if not a shark jump, then a bit of a lamprey leap.

Completely agree. There was some cool stuff going on to keep it from being a complete shark jump, but I really didn't give a flying fig about Ezri's family. I thought Dukat was fine as EEEEVVVILLL but that plot DEFINITELY died when he started fooling around with Kai Winn. Who thought that was a good idea??? It's a shame all the good stuff was countered with crap.

 

[Michael]

Never.

 

[Magisterfrodo]

Was there ever moment where you though DS9 almost jumped the shark? Or perhaps there was a point where you did think it jumped the shark and went down hill in quality...

Or, being such the DS9 fan you are did you think it never came close?

Rob

I thought it might during the episode where it was revealed that Kira's mother had been in love with Dukat. That was just aweful because of its implausibility. Would have been a much better episode if it had been another Cardassian commander.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Perhaps when Jadzia was killed, as the final season wasn't quite up to the standards of the previous four seasons. However, DS9 S7 was still better than most of VOY or ENT and much of TNG.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

No, there was no shark moment. S7 kinda started on a weak note but ended well. If DS9 had gone onto S8, the story might have been different. The series really felt like it was needing to end.

 

[Colonel Green]

Was there ever moment where you though DS9 almost jumped the shark? Or perhaps there was a point where you did think it jumped the shark and went down hill in quality...

Or, being such the DS9 fan you are did you think it never came close?

Rob

I thought it might during the episode where it was revealed that Kira's mother had been in love with Dukat. That was just aweful because of its implausibility. Would have been a much better episode if it had been another Cardassian commander.

AGREED. What, are there like 38 people on Bajor or something?

 

[TeutonicNights]

In season three I thought it was declining. I still very much enjoyed it, but I thought it was heading in the wrong direction. Stories weren't getting better (quite the opposite) and FX actually seemed weaker than in season 2 . Also the Dominion stuff wasn't really taking off as I had hoped during season 2. It seemed they didn't have the resources to do what they really wanted and had to settle for less.
Also, there was talk of bad ratings. I totally expected them to pull something stupid (I now would call "Xindi stunt") and mess it up.

However when WotW aired I knew it had just been a weak phase and ass-kicking had officially begun.

 

[TheMasterOfOrion]

The last season of DS9 totally jumps the shark

Why?

Kira and Odo had zero chemistry

Vic Fontaine did not work right with the series

The conclusion to the war was silly, B-5 did their story arc better. Although B-5 also jumped the shark with the death of Ivanova but if you've watched Babylon5 seasons 2-4 you'll know what I'm talking about when I say its story telling is better.

Ferengi Rom was overused and irritating. Resolution to the female Changeling was anti-climatic, the story behind the religion of the bajorans was totally boooorring

Terry Farrell quits and they spent an entire season trying to build neo-Dax
I don't blame the new actress, the character simply was badly written.

Some bad stand alone eps like baseball etc

Sisko dies or becomes a wormhole god?

Overall from the rushed writing, a bad episodes like It's Only a Paper Moon, Take Me Out to the Holosuite and The Emperor's New Cloak you can see the powers that be were in a rush to wrap up DS9, cancelling it in favor of the new show (Voyager).

 

[Michael]

Kira and Odo had zero chemistry

In your opinion. I liked them just fine.

Vic Fontaine did not work right with the series

I think his character was a great and imaginative addition. James Darren had wonderful chemistry with the rest of the cast.

The conclusion to the war was silly

Why do you think so?

the story behind the religion of the bajorans was totally boooorring

Says you. I thought it was one of the most interesting story threads of the whole series.

Sisko dies or becomes a wormhole god?

Can't see what's not to like about that? Was is too bold for your taste?

bad episodes like It's Only a Paper Moon

One of my favorite episodes in all of Trek.

you can see the powers that be were in a rush to wrap up DS9, cancelling it in favor of the new show (Voyager).

Huh? Voyager was already well underway in DS9's last season. Voyager started 1995, in DS9's third season.

 

[Amaris]

The last season of DS9 totally jumps the shark

Why?

Kira and Odo had zero chemistry

Heartily disagreed. Kira and Odo became one of my favorite relationships, and the ending of it was heartbreaking.

Vic Fontaine did not work right with the series

I loved him, he offered a bit of respite in the series as it focused on war.

The conclusion to the war was silly, B-5 did their story arc better. Although B-5 also jumped the shark with the death of Ivanova but if you've watched Babylon5 seasons 2-4 you'll know what I'm talking about when I say its story telling is better.

Disagreed. This is how wars usually end. Look at WWII for example. The bomb was for show, but the real ending happened on the deck of a battleship, with Admirals signing treaties.

Ferengi Rom was overused and irritating.

I like him. He didn't seem overused to me.

Resolution to the female Changeling was anti-climatic,

See WWII comment above.

the story behind the religion of the bajorans was totally boooorring

To you. Those of us who like how they managed to interweave religion into a science fiction series were always glad to explore that avenue.

Terry Farrell quits and they spent an entire season trying to build neo-Dax
I don't blame the new actress, the character simply was badly written.

I liked Ezri. I mean, I loved Jadzia, but her character had become a Klingon in everything but species. Time for a shakeup.

Some bad stand alone eps like baseball etc

Sisko dies or becomes a wormhole god?

Wouldn't you like to know?

Overall from the rushed writing, a bad episodes like It's Only a Paper Moon,

Are you kidding?! That movie is filled with character development, and it deals with real life situations we face in times of war. Great episode.

Take Me Out to the Holosuite

I loved that episode, one of my top 5 favorites. Fish out of water situations can be funny. This one was done very well.

and The Emperor's New Cloak you can see the powers that be were in a rush to wrap up DS9, cancelling it in favor of the new show (Voyager).

No, you can see that perhaps you didn't like some episodes, and that the show was nearing the end of it's run, but that doesn't mean one requires the other or is the direct cause or result.

J.

 

[GotNoRice]

I’d say that DS9 is my favorite trek series and I always liked Avery Brooks but I always felt that this episode was really out of place: http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Far_Beyond_the_Stars_(episode)

I mean did they really all hate being Star Trek actors that much? I never had a problem with Avery Brooks as an African American having the lead role or what not but having a whole episode where they had to have it set in the 1950’s where he played the role of some author constantly victimized by racism was just too much.

I don’t think DS9 ever really jumped the shark it just had a few really bad episodes (such as the above) and a few funky plot twists such as the klingon war that had to be twisted back into the correct arc once they figured out some direction.

 

[DarKush]

I really liked Far Beyond the Stars. I thought it was different and at times profound. It touched on a part of the American experience that was seldom addressed in such stark, human, and on Earth terms on Trek before.

Looking back I can see how unnecessary the Ezri character was. I do like Nicole DeBoer and liked her on the show, but I do see how she took time away that could've been better spent on the remaining characters and wrapping up the war.

I liked the Dukat/Wynn pairing. It was unexpected. However, I didn't care for Dukat's red-eyed ending. I would've preferred that Dukat end up a blind, Bajoran beggar, depending on people he hated to survive for the rest of his life whereas it would've been Wynn that attempted to release the Pah Wraiths. Perhaps Sisko v. Pah Wraiths, or a Wraith-possessed Kai Wynn v. Prophets-possessed Sisko, perhaps like a sequel to "The Reckoning".

 

[erastus25]

I liked the Dukat/Wynn pairing. It was unexpected. However, I didn't care for Dukat's red-eyed ending. I would've preferred that Dukat end up a blind, Bajoran beggar, depending on people he hated to survive for the rest of his life whereas it would've been Wynn that attempted to release the Pah Wraiths. Perhaps Sisko v. Pah Wraiths, or a Wraith-possessed Kai Wynn v. Prophets-possessed Sisko, perhaps like a sequel to "The Reckoning".

I like your Dukat scenario much better than what actually happened. Unfortunately it's not as plausible as a Dukat vs. Sisko final showdown had been simmering for seasons. But your idea is more fun.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Or, being such the DS9 fan you are did you think it never came close?

Female Impersonator Quark.

They really painted themselves into a corner with the naked Ferengi females thing. While a humorous aside for one scene in "The Last Outpost", over on TNG, when Deanna and Lwaxana get kidnapped by Ferengi ("Menage a Troi") and lose all their clothes, they end up dressing in flowing silvery robes belonging to - who? - the male Ferengi who captured them?

And every time we meet female Ferengi in DS9, they have to be a rebel: Quark's mother, or the female passing herself off as male in Quark's bar, or Quark as a crossdresser who still wears clothes, etc.

 

[erastus25]

Or, being such the DS9 fan you are did you think it never came close?

Female Impersonator Quark.

They really painted themselves into a corner with the naked Ferengi females thing. While a humorous aside for one scene in "The Last Outpost", over on TNG, when Deanna and Lwaxana get kidnapped by Ferengi ("Menage a Troi") and lose all their clothes, they end up dressing in flowing silvery robes belonging to - who? - the male Ferengi who captured them?

And every time we meet female Ferengi in DS9, they have to be a rebel: Quark's mother, or the female passing herself off as male in Quark's bar, or Quark as a crossdresser who still wears clothes, etc.

I don't know that they painted themselves into a corner. It's pretty easy to just not cast any female Ferengi. And I rather liked the rebellious female Ferengi plots when they were done right. The problem, to me, was that the writers felt like they always had to mix in Ferengi comedy episodes, even when the serious Ferengi plots they developed could have worked pretty well. Hence the destruction of the effectiveness of Quark's mom by the Quark in drag episode.

 

[startrekwatcher]

The last season of DS9 totally jumps the shark

.
Hardly. It is my favorite season of DS9. The Final Chapter was thrilling and the writers covered a lot of ground and pulled together various disparate threads in plausible and surprising ways.

I loved the way the writers brought the show full circle with the Bajoran/Cardassian parallels, loved the inspired idea to team up two of the series villians and let them work together and screw each other over, loved all the scenes on Cardassian between the Founders, Damar, Weyoun etc, loved the surprises like the destruction of the Defiant or the attack on San Francisco or Section 31 being behind the virus.

I enjoyed the focus on the more interesting recurring characters, loved Sisko's character arc, loved Kira going to help the resistance etc.

 

[Tulaberry whine]

The conclusion to the war was silly, B-5 did their story arc better. Although B-5 also jumped the shark with the death of Ivanova but if you've watched Babylon5 seasons 2-4 you'll know what I'm talking about when I say its story telling is better.

"Get the hell out of our galaxy."

No. Babylon 5 completely imploded after two stellar seasons. Piling cliche on top of cliche, its once riveting arc disintegrated into a morass of hammy acting, perfunctory exposition and dire dialogue in its fourth season.

The ending to Deep Space Nine wasn't perfect, but at least it retained its dignity.