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DS9 Morality Survey: The Sequel! (Spoilers)

IF it were done well, would an Equinox plot have been better?

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 43.5%
  • No

    Votes: 13 28.3%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 13 28.3%

  • Total voters
    46
Once again, a very nice (but difficult) poll. The toughest for me to answer was the Trill reassociation question- I guess because I'm not sure exactly where they draw the line in the first place: Do the restrictions only apply to former spouses (that's the impression I got from "Rejoined") or is it taboo to reassociate with all former lovers?

Anyway, thanks for posting another great poll and happy 4th anniversary!
 
Thanks for another great poll. It's good to be reminded how often difficult decisions were made in this series. I am not sure there are any 'right' answers which makes answering the poll all the more interesting.

Looking forward to the next one. :)
 
There has been a lot of talk about the Worf/Jadzia poll question.

My take is this: From a purely Star Fleet perspective, he was wrong.

In the big picture, the scope of one's life, not saving her would have been a sin against Worf's soul, one that he wouldn't have been able to live with.

And somehow, you have to believe that it would have been some sort of dishonor to have left her there, keeping in mind Klingon cultural standards.

In any case...it was a great episode...

And ...this was a great poll....hope there are more.
 
Okay...I've finally voted, and for the most part, voted with the majority, it turns out. Except I think O'Brien should have given Bashir more time in Hippocratic Oath.

I'm quite interested in the Sons of Mogh question though. I voted that Sisko should have let Worf kill Kurn in that episode...cus I think that in the Klingon culture, that would not have been murder. And if you are really gonna honor the Klingon culture, you have to honor ALL of it.

I'm curious about what others thought when they voted on that question - it's one of the closer votes, after all!
 
^ I voted that he shouldn't have interferred because what Worf and Kurn were doing was within the realm of Klingon law and tradition, and Kurn consented to the killing too.
 
^Well, I was undecided on that one Vash. There are so many of these Klingon situations in Star Trek where I'm used to saying "It's Klingon tradition, it's Klingon tradition, it's Klingon tradition" but I think there are cases when they'll have to make an exception. In Sisko's position, I wouldn't have wanted anyone to die on my station, but then there's that nagging "Klingon tradition" thing again...

The Kai Winn situation interested me so I included it...just those few last moments of her life can be open to a lot of interpretation. You could either say that she redeemed herself and saved Sisko's life and realized the horrible thing she was doing...or you could say she was just siding with the lesser of two evils(her rival Sisko and Bajor's nemesis, Dukat). Since Dukat betrayed her and became intimate with her, I imagine that bruised her ego quite a bit(not just the "sleeping with Hitler" aspect, but just the idea of being duped as well!) and would have been enough of a motive to eventually turn on him. So it could have been revenge. I put "undecided" vote for me!

(BTW, thanks everyone for your comments. The final survey will be posted in about two weeks...this should keep you occupied until then!)
 
DS9 Fan 2...just so you know, I've decided to keep both of these threads back from the big pruning machine in the sky.

I think it might be fun to have them available...especially as new folks join the forum due to SpikeTV.

Good job on these! :)
 
Thanks Vash, that's a good idea! Hopefully Spike TV will bring *many* new fans to the DS9 forum. And we could always use a fresh perspective on these morality issues.
 
Rugal is sent to Cardassia at the end of Cardassians - Rugal deserved to know his birth father, the Cardassian

The Obsidian Order and the Tal-Shiar plan a pre-emptive strike against the Founders - It only made matters worse

The Klingons attack Cardassia - The Klingons had no right to invade Cardassia

Quark and the rest of The Magnificent Ferengi manipulate a Vorta corpse to save Moogie - Disrespect for the dead? Nah, not if the situation calls for it!

Odo fails to help Kira's ragtag resistance cell help to keep the minefield protecting the wormhole safe Behind the Lines - Odo was being seduced by theFemale Founder, he couldn't help it

Starfleet attempts to take over Earth in Paradise Lost -
No justification.

Worf's Change of Heart - He saved Jadzia, who can blame him?

The Trill re-association taboo in Rejoined - It's nobody's business to tell people who they can associate with, even if it goes against Trill tradition

Garak destroys a Romulan vessel upon their discovering Sisko's treachery in In the Pale Moonlight - Approve, if the Romulans had been permitted to live, the Federation would have been in trouble.

Dukat destroys the Klingons at the end of Return to Grace -
It was not necessary.


Kai Opake is The Collaborator and is responsible for the Kendra Valley Massacre - Undecided/Other

Dr. Bashir's Hippocratic Oath forced him to help the Jem Hadar - Undecided/Other

O'Brien disobey's orders and tries to help the Jem Hadar in Hippocratic Oath - I disagree, he should have given Bashir more time

Sisko stops Worf from killing Kurn in Sons of Mogh -
Honoring Klingon tradition was one thing, but it was going too far. Sisko was right.

Kai Winn - A power-hungry villian who didn't redeem herself


DS9 morality questions are generally... - EASIER to answer than those of other series
 
Posted by trek_dude:

DS9 morality questions are generally... - EASIER to answer than those of other series

I'm not flaming or trolling- I just want to know if other boards have these types of polls. And since trek_dude answered Undecided to more than one (wich is more than I did actually) then what makes them easier to answer than other series?

I just don't recall Voyager or TNG having as challenging moral dilemms the likes of Progress, In The Pale Moonlight, Section 31 episodes or so on. TOS could arguably have had a few but Kirk's response was always shoot first and ask questions later so the situation and his reactions are probably two different things.

Its more of an academic question and I could start another thread, I just wanted to put it here since none of these questions or dilemmas are particularly EASY.
 
Posted by Kevin Fajo:
Posted by trek_dude:

DS9 morality questions are generally... - EASIER to answer than those of other series

I'm not flaming or trolling- I just want to know if other boards have these types of polls. And since trek_dude answered Undecided to more than one (wich is more than I did actually) then what makes them easier to answer than other series?

I just don't recall Voyager or TNG having as challenging moral dilemms the likes of Progress, In The Pale Moonlight, Section 31 episodes or so on. TOS could arguably have had a few but Kirk's response was always shoot first and ask questions later so the situation and his reactions are probably two different things.

Its more of an academic question and I could start another thread, I just wanted to put it here since none of these questions or dilemmas are particularly EASY.

I only answered Undicided to 2 questions
 
Posted by Kevin Fajo:

I'm not flaming or trolling- I just want to know if other boards have these types of polls. And since trek_dude answered Undecided to more than one (wich is more than I did actually) then what makes them easier to answer than other series?

I just don't recall Voyager or TNG having as challenging moral dilemms the likes of Progress, In The Pale Moonlight, Section 31 episodes or so on. TOS could arguably have had a few but Kirk's response was always shoot first and ask questions later so the situation and his reactions are probably two different things.

Its more of an academic question and I could start another thread, I just wanted to put it here since none of these questions or dilemmas are particularly EASY.

I checked, because I mentioned in my last survey/poll that I'm looking forward to seeing one for TNG or the other series. But so far I haven't found any. I don't think it's because there aren't enough questions to compile. If you look hard enough, there should be enough questions for at least one survey for each series. So I'm just waiting for someone to tackle one of the other series.

But I think DS9 questions are harder. Typically, I found, especially with TNG, that the questions they posed can usually be solved easier because the "right" side is almost always the one the main characters take. I was just watching "The Drumhead" and I came across that problem. There was potential for a really tough ethical debate there for the audience to have with themselves, but then Picard goes into this "chains us all irrevocably speech" and then Norah Satie was made to look like a lunatic, and suddenly we know who was right and who was wrong. It was hand-fed to us. I'm not saying that TNG or Voyager didn't pose a doozie of a question every now and then, but that was a recurring theme.

Plus, the entire cast was made up of Starfleet characters, and according to Gene Roddenberry, most of them had no ethical flaws in the 24th century, especially the humans.

That's why DS9's premise has an advantage. It goes back to when Sisko said, "It's easy to be a saint in paradise." Well, DS9 wasn't paradise and that made them the most susceptible to tough moral decisions. Half of the cast and most of the recurring characters are not Starfleet, which made it even harder since they didn't need to always do what Starfleet said, and it became an effective loophole around Roddenberry's mandate. The different aliens opened them up to more possibilities than an all-human or mostly human starship could, IMO. I liked that fact that some of the aliens taught Starfleet a thing or two. Quark in "The Jem'Hadar" was one example. And he was Ferengi...a stark contrast to how Ferengi were portrayed on all the other modern series.

But I don't think you can measure how difficult the questions are by Undecided answers. Many answers I didn't put "undecided" on I still had trouble coming to a conclusion on. But it has to do with each individual person. For some people it's easier, for some it's harder. That's why I asked the question, because even though most people took a side on an issue one way or the other, most people thought the questions were harder than those for the other series anyway.
 
How could Bashir and O'Brien both be winning in the Hippocratic Oath polls?
 
Sisko's decision in Cardassians still bugs me to this day. AFAIC, Sisko had no business going against the boy's wishes...
 
Ok. A couple observations after looking at the results of the surveys after entering mine.

1st- in response to the cardassian and his biological father. Anyone who voted for that kid to not be with his birth father needs to have their head examined and should never sit in as a judge in family court. Pray that you never land in family court and get a judge that rules with your point of view.

2nd- Worf should have been court marshalled out of Starfleet for this act of betrayal to the people of the Federation by ignoring a vital mission that most certainly cost other people their lives. And Sisko shouldn't have truested him to run so much as a replictor from that moment on.
 
Posted by Othello:
1st- in response to the cardassian and his biological father. Anyone who voted for that kid to not be with his birth father needs to have their head examined and should never sit in as a judge in family court. Pray that you never land in family court and get a judge that rules with your point of view.

What really bugged me was that it was a one way or the other decision. Ideally, I think that Sisko should have hammered out some sort of deal whereby there would be a shared custody: time on Cardassia with the birth father and time on Bajor with the adoptive parents. This boy looked to be a pre-teen, at the very least. I still think that more attention would have had to have been played to his wishes in the matter.
 
Posted by Othello:

1st- in response to the cardassian and his biological father. Anyone who voted for that kid to not be with his birth father needs to have their head examined and should never sit in as a judge in family court. Pray that you never land in family court and get a judge that rules with your point of view.

If you're going to make a harsh judgement of people who voted a certain way, you might want to at least explain WHY they're deserving of being told they need their head examined(i.e. why the decision to send him to Cardassia was the right one, and why keeping him on Bajor would be *that* wrong).

As far as I'm concerned, there is no right or wrong answer to any of these questions. If there are people here who need there head examined, I'm 100% sure it has nothing to do with this.

I watched 'Cardassians' again today and my opinion is that Rugal should not have been taken to Cardassia, at least, not so soon. If he had any friends or "relatives" besides his Bajoran father on Bajor, it didn't look like he got a chance to say goodbye in person or have a few weeks to stay on Bajor to prepare to leave. (By storytelling measures that would have been ineffiecient to write that in the plot, but let's ignore that and pretend it's a real situation)

Legally, he belonged in the custody of his Cardassian father, but the legal thing and the right thing don't always fit together hand in hand IMO. Rugal's Bajoran father was as much a father to him as the Cardassian one was. The only difference was his biology, and as far as a family goes, is biology the defining characteristic of a family? NO, not always! An adopted child is not any less of a son or daughter than one who isn't. If you only take into account biology, then you're missing on a lot of the things that really do make up a family...things that either can't or just aren't defined by law.

But by that point, in my view, the Cardassian and Bajoran family had equal rights over Rugal. Rugal himself wanted to remain on Bajor, so I also take that into account. But in the end, that was ignored. And rather than offering joint custody, which is what *should* have happened, the Cardassian gets full custody. That's unfair to Rugal and his Bajoran father, and whoever else he knew on Bajor.
 
Did anyone notice how "Cardassians" directly contradicted TNG's "Suddenly Human"? In DS9, Sisko sided with the biological father, but in TNG, Picard sided with the adopted father.

Of course by the end of "Cardassians" the focus really isn't on the boy anymore, it's on Dukat and his level of involvement.
 
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