DS9.....Boring after a while?

[Jack Bauer]

I find it hard to get through a lot episodes mainly because I've seen them so many times over the years. Even though I haven't seen DS9 for 5 years prior to my current run though of it I get bored or tired with episodes. I'm also in the beginning of season 3 and I always found the first three seasons to be hit and miss and not as well done as seasons 4-7. That opinion hasn't changed between then and now. As much as I love DS9 I do feel it doesn't compare to contemporary shows like Lost and BSG. It seems more slow moving in comparison and not quite as well written. The acting holds up more compared to contemporary shows.

 

[Anubis]

HRHTheKING said:
Ezri was the only weak spot in DS9. A pointless character who added nothing to the show. The screentime devoted to her should have been given to other characters. But it's a minor quibble.

I like Nicole de Boer more than Ezri. I like Ezri, but I just wish they'd have done more with her character (aka, not banging Worf ).

Jack Bauer said:
As much as I love DS9 I do feel it doesn't compare to contemporary shows like Lost and BSG. It seems more slow moving in comparison and not quite as well written. The acting holds up more compared to contemporary shows.

Wow. No offense, but I couldn't disagree more. I love BSG (don't care for Lost personally) but I feel that DS9 is the best written of all the Trek shows, and one of the best written sci-fi series ever. It's not my favorite of all time (Trek show or sci-fi series), but I can't fault the writing.

 

[misskim86]

I watched DS9 last year and I also felt how weird it was, because it felt so relevant today! The religious insurgents on Bajor, the occupation, is Kira a 'terrorist' or a freedom fighter? Stuff like that.

If those things aren't relevant today I don't know what is.

Also the Special effects look great still, much much better than B5.

And to say DS9 doesn't hold up to stuff like Lost or Prison Break.... DUH!!

DS9 was a fore runner to serialized tv with huge constraints because it had to fit into the Star Trek universe.. Of course stuff like Lost today will be better. I'm just happy DS9 was made before 911 before we had to become all PC.

DS9 and B5 are my fav shows ever. I feel they are probably two of the best tv-shows ever made period, not just in Sci Fi.

 

[MrPointy]

Eminence said:
*snip*

There's a simple answer to all that - franchise fatigue.



I think DS9 holds up really well. In fact I love it more now than I did in its first run. I didn't entirely get into it back in the mid/late 90's because of its more seemingly darker, static nature and its lack of Seven of Nine (I was in high school :P).

But I just started buying the DVDs about a year ago because I remembered how much I liked the stuff I'd seen back in S5-7. It's a damn good show. I think the characters help DS9 more than the plots/stories.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Jack Bauer said:
As much as I love DS9 I do feel it doesn't compare to contemporary shows like Lost and BSG. It seems more slow moving in comparison and not quite as well written.

Yep, it plays remarkably like an old "Star Trek" series and there's nothing that can be done about it.

 

[Navaros]

I'd say DS9 obliterates Lost and BSG. Those are basically "shows where nothing ever happens" other than a lot of endless babbling that barely ever amounts to anything, very much like a daytime soap opera. DS9 had a lot of talk too, but it never dragged anything on and on ad infinitum long past it's shelf date. DS9 in my view did serialization way better than those shows. Maxing the potential of serialization should not be equal to turning a show into a clone of daytime soap opera, as "contemporary shows" seem to think should be the case.

DS9 compared to Prison Break, there's no comparison at all. Prison Break has no plot whatsoever. Prison Break's serialization is a completely moot point as the show has zero story value in the first place. DS9 on the other hand, had a great story.

 

[exodus]

Navaros said:
I'd say DS9 obliterates Lost and BSG. Those are basically "shows where nothing ever happens" other than a lot of endless babbling that barely ever amounts to anything, very much like a daytime soap opera. DS9 had a lot of talk too, but it never dragged anything on and on ad infinitum long past it's shelf date. DS9 in my view did serialization way better than those shows. Maxing the potential of serialization should not be equal to turning a show into a clone of daytime soap opera, as "contemporary shows" seem to think should be the case.

DS9 compared to Prison Break, there's no comparison at all. Prison Break has no plot whatsoever. Prison Break's serialization is a completely moot point as the show has zero story value in the first place. DS9 on the other hand, had a great story.

Finally, we agree on something.(Quick, play the lottery!!)

While I'm a big fan of LOST, everything said here is spot on.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Navaros said:
I'd say DS9 obliterates Lost and BSG. Those are basically "shows where nothing ever happens" other than a lot of endless babbling that barely ever amounts to anything, very much like a daytime soap opera. DS9 had a lot of talk too, but it never dragged anything on and on ad infinitum long past it's shelf date. DS9 in my view did serialization way better than those shows. Maxing the potential of serialization should not be equal to turning a show into a clone of daytime soap opera, as "contemporary shows" seem to think should be the case.

DS9 compared to Prison Break, there's no comparison at all. Prison Break has no plot whatsoever. Prison Break's serialization is a completely moot point as the show has zero story value in the first place. DS9 on the other hand, had a great story.

Well, while I generally agree with this post, I do think that Prison Break had a very good story during it's first season. That was some kick-ass good TV! But after the first season, it has suffered more than a bit from the wear-out-your-welcome phenomenon.

I mean, the show is called 'Prison Break'. And so after they broke out, they should have wrapped up the conspiracy drama alot quicker than they have.

But then, what network these days goes for quality programming above keeping a ratings winner on the air until it sucks so badly that everyone finally quits watching it?

Very few long-running shows anymore 'go out on top'.

All one needs to do for proof of that is to look at ER...or even worse, Friends.

The only recent long-running show that I can think of that 'went out on top' was Seinfeld, and that was not because of the network. It was because Jerry Seinfeld himself said he had done all he could with the characters and wanted to quit while he was ahead.

Jerry Seinfeld was very wise!

 

[misskim86]

Really agree about Prison Break, and Seinfeldt, TNG and DS9 kinda went out while they were ahead too, altough some might argue TNG was boarder lining.

I think Prison break 3rd season is better than 2nd though.

 

[Eminence]

MrPointy said:

Eminence said:
*snip*

There's a simple answer to all that - franchise fatigue.

Not really...I've watched DS9, VOY, and TNG each a Brazilian times (don't u just love that Bush reference); and I'd have to say that, I 'm not nearly as fatigued on TNG or VOY as I am with DS9. Like I mentioned, a significant chunk (I'm not saying it's the only chunk) of DS9's appeal was the plot suspense, a suspense that wasn't just in one episode, but throughout several episodes. So in the case of DS9, when that 'suspense' wanes, say for something like the end of Season 5, beginning of Season 6 episodes....Episodes like "A Time to Stand" or "The Changing Face of Evil" just become predictable, along with their arced counterparts.

This problem I find, is not evident in VOY or TNG. With their more episodic formats, sure, there may be some fatigue within the individual episode because you've seen it so many times, but at least it doesn't ruin a good chunk of the season's episodes because they're so interlinked. I don't know how else to put it other than.....once, building up to a big bang....now, building up to a big bore.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

^ See, for me, it was the exact opposite.

When I first watched TNG during it's original run, I though it was fabulous - I never missed an episode. After DS9 came on and got rolling I began to like it more than TNG...but I still loved TNG.

But I have to say that with each passing year, that show gets on my nerves more and more. When I joined this board 6 1/2 years ago, I would have ranked the shows:

DS9
TNG
TOS
VOY (ENT wasn't on yet)


Now I rank them:

DS9
.
.
.
.
VOY or TOS (depending on my mood)
.
.
.
.
.
.
BIG GAP
.
.
.
.
.
TNG
ENT

These days, I find TNG to be preachy and the characters smugly superior to the point of being annoying. There is no tension between the characters - everyone always gets along like one big happy family all the time and I find that boring and unrealistic.

And finally, I don't thing TNG has aged well. Particularly the first two seasons are just dreadful. The sets, costumes and style of the show is incredibly dated...and the dialog is some of the most stilted silliness going. Did Worf do anything in season one of TNG besides grunt and growl?

I think DS9 and VOY have aged much better...and even TOS has aged better considering how much older it is than TNG!

In other words, I think that there is no right or wrong answer to this question. Everyone is different and is effected by different things. All of this is purely a matter of personal preference.

 

[tomalak301]

^Oh just admit it. You've allowed the opinions of other posters to cloud your judgement. On the inside you still love TNG.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Navaros said:
I'd say DS9 obliterates Lost and BSG. Those are basically "shows where nothing ever happens" other than a lot of endless babbling that barely ever amounts to anything

Lost really isn't a fair comparison. Lost is a very serialized series that you can treat almost as a single story but intead of being covered in one hour it is projected out not into the life of the series across however many seasons it runs.

I think that style is good for one or two series because it is just so ambitious--dozens of ongoing mysteries that aren't necessarily answered for years while at the same time continuing to introduce and pile on new elements, the ensemble dwarfs the already impressive DS9 one etc.

DS9, despite being heralded as a very serialized series, wasn't nearly as serialized as these other shows. I'd argue a series fares better, if it tackles arcs, to be solely serializd. DS9's better seasons came from when it focused on the Dominion and the war. But it also pointed out how too much "filler"--i.e. stories that don't deal in any significant way to core elements--can lose a viewers interest.

Shows like Heroes and Lost don't really have that problem because with numerous threads they can't afford to waste time on lesser compelling material the way DS9 at times did.

The upside with DS9 was that its arcs didn't drag stuff out the way Heroes or Lost does. They followed the more traditional serial format of establishing arcs that were resolved within a certain number of episodes and then using a turn of events to launch a new arc. Their arcs were far more self-contained whereas these other shows have a lot of bleed over.

re:BSG
I don't find it as compelling as a lot of people but one thing DS9 has over it is DS9 was better plotted. BSG has a lot of dead ends or don't mine a thread they introduce as well as they could have. DS9 was mindful like Heroes of both characters and plot.

very much like a daytime soap opera.

I know people like to disparage soaps and I can't really argue presently that they are great but in the past I've found some quite entertaining ones both of the daytime and primetime variety.

Really I see a lot of soap format and style in serials including Heroes, BSG, Lost or DS9==twists, shocking developments, suspense, fantastical notions, deus ex machina, cliffhangers, Big Ideas, large casts, characters back from the dead, near death experiences, supernatural entities, and romance(usually not very compelling either--Worf/Dax, Ezri/Bashir, Starbuck/Apollo/Dee/Anders, Isaac/Simone/Peter, Kate/Sawyer/Juliet/Jack etc).

The only downside with arcs is that don't hold up as well for repeat viewing because a lot of the fun is watching everything unfold and feeling in the moment as everything is in a constant state of flux.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

tomalak301 said:
^Oh just admit it. You've allowed the opinions of other posters to cloud your judgement. On the inside you still love TNG.

Hey, I still LOVE the Q episodes.

I love to watch Picard squirm as Q fucks with his head.

Oh...and I still love Yesterday's Enterprise. :thumbsup: