Drama queen writers

[Deks]

What phasers?

Phasers... as in hand-held weapons which members of Starfleet security onboard ships frequently use, and/or an entire crew can be equipped with if they are preparing for a major encounter - which technically speaking isn't a problem because in the 32nd century, you could wear programmable matter on your wrist while on duty and convert it into a weapon as needed.

I just figured the Chain's 32nd tech overwhelmed Discovery's tech.

Nothing of the kind was indicated, because if that was the case, the Chain would have had a massive advantage over Starfleet a while ago (at best, they are somewhat at a parity) and just snatched their ships away from them at all times.

This seemed more like writer incompetence pure and simple which was blamed on Tilly's inexperience (even Osyraa's minion bragged about how easy it was to capture Discovery due to Tilly's inexperience in her face).

 

[fireproof78]

I'd have liked to see the crew putting up some sort of a fight yes. A minute or two of phasers being fired, a few redshirts getting vaporised, but the crew is quickly overwhelmed by a superior force.

I didn't like a Starfleet crew basically shrugging and going 'I guess that's that then' ten seconds after people beam in to takeover their ship.

Isn't part of combat training to know when to not fight? I thought I read that somewhere...

Also, and this is just me, but Discovery gets accused of too much pew pew. At some point in time something like this would happen. I don't need red shirts vaporized to know the situation is serious; I'm rather tired of it. I guess Discovery took a risk and ignored that Trek trope.

Vance did not look pleased when the news was relayed to him but for the most part he's been extremely laissez faire to Saru about the running of the ship, even keeping old uniforms. Depending on how things go down in the final episode I could imagine there are some changes in store.

I am hoping so.

Nothing of the kind was indicated, because if that was the case, The Chain would have had a massive advantage over Starfleet a while ago (at best, they are somewhat at a parity).

This seemed more like writer incompetence pure and simple.

So, Emerald Chain wouldn't have been trying to have some sort of countermeasure to Starfleet tech?

At this point 32nd tech is just magic. It should solve every problem every time and our heroes should never want for nothing. And now the writers are incompetent at every turn.

I would recommend watching a more competently written show if this is the argument over and again.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Isn't part of combat training to know when to not fight? I thought I read that somewhere...

Let me know where you read it if you remember.

Certainly there are times when you probably shouldn't fight - but I don't think an enemy forcibly taking your starship and it's unique drive that gives them the ability to appear literally anywhere from you, to be potentially used for God knows what purpose against what's left of Starfleet is one of those times though.

 

[fireproof78]

Let me know where you read it if you remember.

Certainly there are times when you probably shouldn't fight - but I don't think an enemy forcibly taking your starship and it's unique drive that gives them the ability to appear literally anywhere from you, to be potentially used for God knows what purpose against what's left of Starfleet is one of those times though.

Unless they have some advantage I didn't see in the episode all I see the fight doing is getting people killed.

 

[Nerys Myk]

OP, it's obvious that the writing is suffering, but is it really fair to call the writers drama queens? Personal attacks and all.

It also makes no sense.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Unless they have some advantage I didn't see in the episode all I see the fight doing is getting people killed.

Do you see no value in making an attempt at fighting back or offering any sort of resistance? Or are you (which you seem to be) of the mind that any attempt to prevent your ship being overtaken by a hostile force and used against your own organisation shouldn't be made because people could die?

Genuine question.

 

[fireproof78]

Do you see no value in making an attempt at fighting back or offering any sort of resistance? Or are you (which you seem to be) of the mind that any attempt to prevent your ship being overtaken by a hostile force and used against your own organisation shouldn't be made because people could die?

Genuine question.

I see no value in attempting resistance when it is clear your people will just die. What is achieved in such a move? You have reduced your numbers, made the enemy more watchful and limited opportunities to actually resist. I think an attempt should be made but watching the episode they didn't have any weapons so they would just charge and get shot.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, it seems like you want Starfleet officers to just throw themselves in to a fight without any sense of tactics but just swing and hope.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Let me know where you read it if you remember

I'm going with Kenny Rogers. or maybe Sun Tzu "He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.”
" Who wishes to fight must first count the cost”

 

[Angry Fanboy]

I see no value in attempting resistance when it is clear your people will just die. What is achieved in such a move? You have reduced your numbers, made the enemy more watchful and limited opportunities to actually resist. I think an attempt should be made but watching the episode they didn't have any weapons so they would just charge and get shot.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, it seems like you want Starfleet officers to just throw themselves in to a fight without any sense of tactics but just swing and hope.

Mmm. Well I disagree with you but you're clearly firm about offering no sort of resistance. I do think it comes across as, dare I say a little cowardly to make absolutely zero effort to prevent the ship being taken by an enemy, but there you go.

Agree to disagree!

 

[fireproof78]

Mmm. Well I disagree with you but you're clearly firm about offering no sort of resistance. I do think it comes across as, dare I say a little cowardly to make absolutely zero effort to prevent the ship being taken by an enemy, but there you go.

Agree to disagree!

Well, no resistance if it accomplishes nothing.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Well, no resistance if it accomplishes nothing.

How would you know unless you try?

I get the feeling we'll never agree - I hope no one ever tries to burgle your house because I get the feeling they could just walk in and ask you to leave while they ransacked the place and you'd pop outside until they were finished!

Anyway, have a good evening!

 

[fireproof78]

How would you know unless you try?

I get the feeling we'll never agree - I hope no one ever tries to burgle your house because I get the feeling they could just walk in and ask you to leave while they ransacked the place and you'd pop outside until they were finished!

Anyway, have a good evening!

You would be quite wrong. I just wouldn't burst in and hope for the best.

I think you misunderstand me, or I am not speaking clearly. Because, based upon what was written there is the hope that Discovery would have crew immediately leap in to action, a la TOS, and have a red shirt die to prove the situation serious. Now, I can appreciate that, but if all they are going to do is die then what did that accomplish? It would just be further ammo to say that Saru is an incompetent captain, Tilly shouldn't be in command and Discovery falls back on pew-pew.

Versus a burglary in which I have already established where my weapons are and how to cut off routes of escape. But, if the burglar appears and has a gun on me then I'm not immediately going to jump at him and pray he's an idiot who doesn't know how to shoot gun.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

As a professional writer myself, I can say all writers are drama queens.

 

[Deks]

So, Emerald Chain wouldn't have been trying to have some sort of countermeasure to Starfleet tech?

Didn't seem like they have.
If they did and it was actually MENTIONED in a passing line, that would be something. Instead, it was blamed on Tilly's inexperience.

At this point 32nd tech is just magic. It should solve every problem every time and our heroes should never want for nothing. And now the writers are incompetent at every turn.

I would recommend watching a more competently written show if this is the argument over and again.

24th century technology was portrayed as better actually what with automated defensive systems, etc. and that wasn't magic.
32nd century is hardly magic - we already have programmable matter in a fairly experimental form even.
I'm just saying its not used to the fullest extent that fits within Trek universe and what the technology even portrayed in the past.

The writers have a nasty habit of just IGNORING technology (aka the setting in which the show takes place) for the sake of drama.
Which is hardly unheard of in Trek, but its just downright abused on Discovery to the extreme.
Previous shows also dealt with these issues, but at the same time, the writers made an effort to at least say the enemy has been developing countermeasures to bypass SF's defenses... no such thing was even mentioned here.

We can 'speculate' the Chain was developing countermeasures, yes, but that means NOTHING because as I mentioned before, it wasn't even indicated for one thing and the whole Discovery being taken over easily was all blamed on Tilly's inexperience (the Chain hadn't been developing countermeasures... and even if they did, Starfleet would have done the same) - heck, even basic automated functions/countermeasures from 24th century we've seen would have compensated somewhat for Tilly's inexperience and prevented what we saw... and if the writers actually BOTHERED to write a bit of a resistance here on behalf of Discovery crew and THEN failing due to Tilly's inexperience (by actually showing it), I'd have agreed with the premise... but what we got indicates the writers just chose the dumb route.

 

[fireproof78]

That actually kinda makes it less Star Trek.

It makes it exactly Star Trek in my mind.

To each their own. Blame the writers. They can't fight back.

 

[Deks]

It makes it exactly Star Trek in my mind.

To each their own. Blame the writers. They can't fight back.

Credit where credit is due... and they ARE to blame.

 

[fireproof78]

Credit where credit is due... and they ARE to blame.

Cool.

Please go tell them that. I have no power over them.


I can only state how I take in the show. It reminds of Star Trek, for good and bad. I don't expect the writers to do better than past Treks because no one has told them to do better; they just want "Star Trek" and supposedly Discovery wasn't it for two seasons. So, a ship taken over relatively easily? Security not doing its job? Technology being overcome without difficulty? Yup, that is Star Trek through and through.

ETA: I get that whataboutism is getting old but man, this all smacks of what was done before. Did people hate it then too? Asking for a friend.

 

[Deks]

Cool.

ETA: I get that whataboutism is getting old but man, this all smacks of what was done before. Did people hate it then too? Asking for a friend.

People hated it before too... but my point is that past Trek, while definitely guilty of that, at least took 'some' effort to explain WHY it happened in a way that made some semblance of sense (take 'Rascals' for example... that was REALLY bad - I'd say almost on par with this Disco episode - but there, the Ferengi took the Enterprise by surprise and managed to knock out its systems, so automated internal security systems had a reason for failing - Worf and his security team's ineptitude on the other hand had no excuse).

In Disco, Tilly's inexperience was mentioned yes, but as a throwaway line only (and she and the rest of the crew handn't actually been DONE anything at all... except exchange a few lines with Osyraa, and then 'boom', suddenly, Osyraa has a boarding party in engineering and shortly after on the rest of the ship).

If a 'line' was mentioned that Osyraa penetrated Discovery's shields in the engineering section (which is probably the most heavily shielded section on the ship to begin with) and then disabled systems from there allowing other boarding parties to materialize on Disco... sure... that would be fine... but no, nothing of the kind was mentioned.

 

[fireproof78]

People hated it before too... but my point is that past Trek, while definitely guilty of that, at least took 'some' effort to explain WHY it happened in a way that made some semblance of sense (take 'Rascals' for example... that was REALLY bad - I'd say almost on par with this Disco episode - but there, the Ferengi took the Enterprise by surprise and managed to knock out its systems, so automated internal security systems had a reason for failing - Worf and his security team's ineptitude on the other hand had no excuse).

In Disco, Tilly's inexperience was mentioned yes, but as a throwaway line only (and she and the rest of the crew handn't actually been DONE anything at all... except exchange a few lines with Osyraa, and then 'boom', suddenly, Osyraa has a boarding party in engineering and shortly after on the rest of the ship).

If a 'line' was mentioned that Osyraa penetrated Discovery's shields in the engineering section (which is probably the most heavily shielded section on the ship to begin with) and then disabled systems from there allowing other boarding parties to materialize on Disco... sure... that would be fine... but no, nothing of the kind was mentioned.

I don't recall explanations happening all the time. So, I don't worry about it. I don't need everything spelled out for me.

Mileage, etc.

 

[JRoss]

As a professional writer myself, I can say all writers are drama queens.

I mean, we are. But that's our word. They don't get to use it.