Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by RAMA, Jul 19, 2017.
You where right. It's a survival instincy according to Doug Jones in this clip
This makes no sense. How are they in the Federation if the two species are at war, also the fact that one species is prey implies a technological disparity but the fact that he has evolved with these instincts implies that this has been going on for tens of thousands of years, because - evolution. So if there's a technological disparity then the dominant species would've killed off this weaker species thousands of years ago. This is the dumbest premise for any alien species in startrek.
I don't think it says his species is in the Federation.
Alright, still doesn't allow it to make any sense. The only way they'd be fighting for thousands of years and not win/lose is if they're both very primitive species living in the stone age, but then how would he get to serve on a starship. This must be one of the worst ideas in StarTrek.
There's a long history of 'prey' species in scifi. Pierson's Puppeteers are probably the most prominent and even have an indirect link to Trek through "The Slaver Weapon", although poor Nessus got replaced by Spock.
Also, while the quotes do seem to indicate predation is still a problem, we don't know how widespread it is. People get killed by wildlife all the time. They might have only recently invented firearms and then more advanced weapons and technology (recently being the last few hundred years, like humans) which is not going to erase millions of years of evolutionary adaption. For that matter, even with technology their homeworld could be a standard sci-if death world. Maybe Saru would feel right at home on Catachan.
Why's that? Predator/prey relationships aren't wars, or mutually assured destruction. It's in the predator's interest to maintain a sustainable food source.
Saru being in Starfleet isn't any weirder than Data being in Starfleet or Odo - a shapeshifter from the other side of the galaxy - being in the bajoran military. Maybe the Hunter-Species on Sarus planet has Starships and Saru catched a ride to escape. Or maybe they have trading-contact with other species and Saru managed to get away. Or... or... or. There are lots of possibilities, and I'm sure we will get his story in a comic or a novel.
The thing that irks me more with Saru is his design. He looks pretty boring. Just another rubber mask-guy. In fact, he reminds me of the botha from Voyagers "Persisente of Vision" :/ I'd hoped they would do something more... alien.
It's in the prey's interest to eliminate their predators. Considering that Kelpiens are clearly an intelligent species, they should've neutralized their predators thousands of years ago, much like we have on Earth. But it sounds like the implication is that they're still hunted, which makes no sense, unless the predators are also an intelligent species and they're just in a state of a constant war. Also, they mention that the predators are a dominant species, so the dominant species on their planet is a wild animal while the submissive species is an intelligent race of scientists? Genius. Or they're both intelligent species, but then we're back to them being in a state of war. Or Kelpiens are pacifists and just let the "dominant" species eat them once in a while, in the meantime they build spaceships and forge interplanetary relationships, but on their own planet they're a foodsource.
Whatever the scenario explaining this is, it sounds beyond ridiculous.
Oh yeah, almost forgot about Puppeteers, it's been awhile. I don't remember how them being prey is explained in the novels.
Sure some humans are still eaten by lions, but lions are not the dominant species on Earth. The conditions where this wild predator remains a dominant species while an intelligent species is still under threat evading these animals instead of watching them in zoos are beyond impossible to imagine.
I have to admit when I saw the first trailer, the whole Saru "senses death" thing bothered me. I was concerned that it would either be a Counselor Troi like thing, where he would be stating the obvious, or that it would cross over into the metaphysical realm. But now that more details have emerged I find the character, and the potential story lines, fascinating. Essentially he is a Gazelle. Are Lions evil, are wolves evil? No, of course not. Hunting other animals is a part of their existence. Does the equation change if both species are sentient? Eh, difficult. Who are we to judge what happens on other planets?
Why is that so hard to imagine?
What if the lions were roaming freely in our cities? They'd sure hunt somebody once in a while. The Kelpien's city might be close to nature.
The Na'vi are the dominant species on Pandora but still can get eaten by various predators. Or Humans in Jurassic World/Isla Nublar.
I think the novels expand on a few species that happen to be a food source - maybe the Nasat from TAS?
Kelpiens are NOT the dominant species. Why would we have lions roaming in our cities? We'd just kill them off. In fact, they used to roam in our settlements, that's why they do not anymore, because we started hunting them.
Yes, the arrangement we see with the Naavi makes sense, because they're still living in the stone age and so, once in awhile, can get eaten by wild predators. But the Kelpiens are spacefaring species.
Where dose it say that the Kelpiens are spacefaring?
Because we are human, his race is not. We are not prey, we are predators ourselves, we did not evolve as a prey animal. Just because humans kill off anything that threatens us, does not mean other species will do so.This species may not hunt but found other method, such as fences and stun weapons and the like and simply find the idea of killing a beast only acting in its nature wrong.
Aliens are just that, Alien. They will not always act in a way that makes sense to a human.
Traditionally in Star Trek, for the Federation to consider first contact, a species must have invented warp drive first - it's the marker of a civilization ready to enter the galactic community.
I must admit I kind of agree... I had it too when I first saw Phlox... I love Saru's eyes, but I think they should have gone for another skin color, perhaps light green or something... it would have made him so much more alien... But it's just a look; I am convinced he will be an awesome character..!
The "prey" thing sounds like the first interesting premise for a Trek alien in forty-odd years.
It's actually a science-fictiony thing. Go figure.
That always seemed more lax in the TOS era, though. I mean, you have the Capellans, Tyree's people, the Kalar that Pike fought (presumably, but I could be wrong).
I've always retroactively reasoned that they were perhaps contacted by other warp species first, and so the Federation didn't need to follow first contact protocols to the same extent - i.e. Kalar being in the Rigel system right next to several warp species.
The absolute requirement for warp capability was only established in the TNG episode "First Contact."
The prohibition against revealing the Federation to species who were unaware of extraplanetary civilizations goes back further.
It might be in the interests of prey to eliminate predators, but perhaps not in their nature. One more reason this is interesting.
Wonder how Saru feels about his crewmates who enjoy steak?
Separate names with a comma.