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Doomsday Machine not best of TOS

Hatshepsut said:
...which is precisely why having the Science and Engineering Officers as 2nd and 3rd in line is a big problem. I'm not a seaman or mariner, but I doubt they ever do that on real ships.
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Why would it be a problem? It happens all the time in the US Navy (for engineering anyway, there aren't real "science officers"). Almost all USN line officers serve in a ship's engineering department at some point in their careers, and many warship captains served as chief engineers for their department head tour. For submarine captains, it's more like 100%.

Even in the age of sail, naval officers were trained in mathematics and "scientific" disciplines like astronomy, for navigation. Later specialties broadened to include highly technical fields like steam propulsion, fire control, torpedoes, electricity and radio, and today it might be missile guidance systems or computer networks. None of which interfered with the officer's training for eventual command. As a lieutenant, Admiral Nimitz of WW2 fame was one of the top diesel engine experts in the US and had private sector offers of many times his navy salary.

I don't see a problem with officers' specialization in a space-exploring service expanding to include even "hard" science, or a Starfleet officer working in a ship's science or engineering departments and still being in line of command. And, it fits what we've seen with Spock, Scotty, Sulu, Will Decker and maybe even Kirk (it seemed like he may have been an engineering watch officer as an ensign from what was said in "Court Martial").
 
...Or an instructor busybodying over (postgrad) students working on various departments, as one way of explaining his conflicting backstory would be to say that his early starship assignments did not yet see him "leaving the Academy".

Timo Saloniemi
 
Timo said:
Whether McCoy might secretly be a line officer, too, the story doesn't tell.
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A Taste Of Armageddon indicates McCoy isn't, else he wouldn't be advising Scott by saying ``if I were an officer of the line''. While I'll concede that it's theoretically possible that status changed from one year to the next I'd say the evidence is he wasn't.
 
J.T.B. said:
Hatshepsut said:
...having the Science and Engineering Officers as 2nd and 3rd in line is a big problem.
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Why would it be a problem? It happens all the time in the US Navy ...Almost all USN line officers serve in a ship's engineering department at some point in their careers.
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The problem isn't so much the same person doing the two jobs at different points in their careers, but doing them both at the same time. Scotty must need orthopedic shoes with all those trips up to the bridge and back!
 
Or maybe Scotty just has a really good 2nd in command down in Engineering? Someone that we never see, naturally :lol:
 
Exercise program. He clearly went off it after the refit. Spending most of his time in Engineering rather than coming up to the bridge all the time.
 
I always thought Windom's Decker was great. I wrote off the inconsistencies in his behavior to the incredible trauma he experienced (beaming down his whole crew to a planet only to watch that planet get destroyed while all of them are signalling him back at the ship for help. Rough!!!) coupled with the added trauma that this thing was on its way to destroy inhabited solar systems!

Doomsday has always been one of the most frightening and compelling episodes ever.

His goal was suicide but he did not die in vain. It inspired Kirk's final plan to destroy the Planet Killer.
 
I'll admit that since starting this thread, my esteem for "The Doomsday Machine" has improved. It was the scene with Decker sitting in the captain's chair arrogating command that put me off. The way Windom's face looked for a moment, almost like an English Duke of York filled with scorn for mere "commoners." But later, in the shuttlecraft as he enters the maw of the planet-destroyer, he comes off much better. Perhaps he was really convinced that he could disable the doomsday that way, rendering his demise more noble.

That allowing an officer traumatized by the destruction of his ship and crew to take command is unrealistic, can be excused as the literary license needed to generate an interesting story. Still not my favorite episode, but better on an additional viewing than I had thought. Mr. Spock doesn't even utter "fascinating" this time, or did I miss it? Then again, Vulcan character does come out at precisely 97.1 megatons. :vulcan:
 
Perhaps he was really convinced that he could disable the doomsday that way, rendering his demise more noble.
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For all we know, that's what he intended to do all along, even back when he still had a starship of his own available.

I mean, there's zero chance that 430 reasonable people would agree to beam down to a planet when facing a beast that eats planets... Unless the action somehow increased their odds of survival, rather than decreased them. And the one way that would make sense is if Decker intended to ram the beast. Only one person would need to die piloting the ship, and that obviously would be Decker. But when the beast disabled Decker's engines, the plan turned upside down and the entire crew died.

With access to a ship that had not been caught pants down and still had working guns, Decker then tried a non-suicidal approach. But when that failed, he completed the suicide plan, only in smaller scale - and directly inspired the main heroes to fihisn what he had started...

Timo Saloniemi
 
I like that, Timo! The notion of why the entire crew would beam down under those circumstances has always been a bothersome one to me.
 
It's one hell of a logistics feat to start with. We see in "This Side of Paradise" that great enthusiasm coupled with total lack of discipline results in long queues - giving the crew if not hours, then at least plenty of minutes to contemplate the error of their ways. "Panicking" is not a plausible mode of departing the ship via transporters.

When getting command of the Enterprise, why does Decker avoid the only weak spot of the beast like plague? Perhaps because he tried to exploit that once before, and it cost him his engines and therefore his crew.

Decker is being first incoherent, then evasive about what happened, so we're at liberty to assign rational motivations to him. Although he has every right to be irrational afterwards...

...The bit that bothers me is why Decker thinks there's hurry involved. How fast is the DDM? Too slow to catch a crippled starship limping at impulse, but fast enough to devour at least half a dozen star systems in at most a year. The writers really didn't think this one through, but it's salvageable IMHO, and worth salvaging, too. If only for Windom's performance.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Timo said:
Perhaps he was really convinced that he could disable the doomsday that way, rendering his demise more noble.
Click to expand...

For all we know, that's what he intended to do all along, even back when he still had a starship of his own available.

I mean, there's zero chance that 430 reasonable people would agree to beam down to a planet when facing a beast that eats planets... Unless the action somehow increased their odds of survival, rather than decreased them. And the one way that would make sense is if Decker intended to ram the beast. Only one person would need to die piloting the ship, and that obviously would be Decker. But when the beast disabled Decker's engines, the plan turned upside down and the entire crew died.

With access to a ship that had not been caught pants down and still had working guns, Decker then tried a non-suicidal approach. But when that failed, he completed the suicide plan, only in smaller scale - and directly inspired the main heroes to fihisn what he had started...

Timo Saloniemi
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Good explanation.
 
Timo said:
. . . How fast is the DDM? Too slow to catch a crippled starship limping at impulse, but fast enough to devour at least half a dozen star systems in at most a year.
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Like warp drive and turbolifts, the DDM moves at the speed of plot.
 
Alter Ego said:
I always thought Windom's Decker was great. I wrote off the inconsistencies in his behavior to the incredible trauma he experienced (beaming down his whole crew to a planet only to watch that planet get destroyed while all of them are signalling him back at the ship for help. Rough!!!) coupled with the added trauma that this thing was on its way to destroy inhabited solar systems!

Doomsday has always been one of the most frightening and compelling episodes ever.

His goal was suicide but he did not die in vain. It inspired Kirk's final plan to destroy the Planet Killer.
Click to expand...

And he survived to live in the early 21st century, as seen in the Phase II episode In Harm's Way.
 
I just rewatched this episode for the first time in a very long time, and I say this is one GREAT FREAKING EPISODE.

I think they build up the threat nicely at the beginning. What? There something out there powerful enough to destroy not only whole planets, but entire solar systems? Scary. Then we see the Constellation. Whatever this thing is, it's powerful enough to wreck a starship! Scarier. Now we have to worry about our heroes. Then we meet Decker. Windom's performance depicting extreme horror about the machine builds the tension even more. Then, it appears!!!! It's chasing the Enterprise, and it's gaining!!!! It's first appearance is so bad ass. I freaking LOVE this episode. I was always partial to stories with ultra-powerful badguys that the heroes have to use their wits to defeat, and this one delivers with all-out action and drama from start to finish. Oh, yeah, Star Trek at its best.
 
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