Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b/c..

[The Rock]

...of the events of Star Trek VI: TUC?

Here's what I mean.....In TUC, legitimate peace was established between the Klingons and the Federation. However, in Yesterday's Enterprise, the Enterprise-C went through a temporal rift when it wasn't supposed to and thus changed Picard's normal reality into an alternate reality where the Federation was at war with the Klingons.

Now, I understand that Yesterday's Enterprise was aired years before TUC ever came in theaters. So when Yesterday's Enterprise was written, maybe the TNG writers figured that peace with the Klingons wasn't really established until after the Enterprise C defended the Klingons from the Romulans at Narendra III.

But b/c of TUC, peace with with the Klingons was established way before the events of Yesterday's Enterprise.

So what I'm wondering is, what is an in-universe explanation as to why after the Khitomer Accords, Klingon and Federation relations had gotten so unstable until the events of Yesterday's Enterprise?

 

[Art Vandelay]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

I've always been under the impression that The Undiscovered Country laid the groundwork for the cessation of hostilities. Nothing more, nothing less. Proceeding from that point to an actual peace treaty, the road might be long and bumpy.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

After decades of hostilities between the UFP end the Empire, that won't just go away overnight. During the time of the E-C's destruction, maybe things were a bit rocky for some reason, and it took their sacrifice, defending an unarmed colony to prove the UFP's committment to the alliance. The Klingons after all a species where actions would be more important than words.

But that's my thoughts.

 

[Paradon]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

Well as with any other powers, they won't take a back seat to anyone. They want to become a the dominant player and spread their influence throughout the galaxy just as the Federation and Romulans were trying to do.

 

[cblmc1296]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

Since, by the time of TUC, so much of the production team was also involved in the TNG TV series, I imagine someone at least thought about potential continuity issues...Richard Arnold or Mike Okuda perhaps. But, since the best Star Trek mirrors what's going on in the "real" world, it's not far-reaching to assume that a fragile peace like the one depicted at the end of TUC could have broken down 50 years later by the time of the Enterprise C.

 

[captcalhoun]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

the Khitomer Accords started out as a cease-fire agreement, and over the years, became a full-blown alliance. the Accords are probably a whole series of treaties (Accords, plural, note) with the first Khitomer Accord and end to hostilities and the twenty-third (or forty-seventh for all we know) Accord being the mutual defence pact and trade treaty.

 

[Warped9]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

I've always been under the impression that The Undiscovered Country laid the groundwork for the cessation of hostilities. Nothing more, nothing less. Proceeding from that point to an actual peace treaty, the road might be long and bumpy.

That's also my impression. The Federation and the Klingons were trying to establish some form of detente because the Klingons supposedly couldn't afford their operations on the same level anymore. And then in "Yesterday's Enterprise" the Klingons have regained sufficient military capability to make Federation defeat imminent?

But more to the heart of it is that a lot of TUC doesn't make sense. How could a star faring culture be so dependent upon on single energy source? If they inhabit numerous systems then they would have numerous energy sources. This was supposed to be something of a Cold War analogy story, but I think it was rather clumsily conceived and written, at least in this respect. You cannot really equate the Klingon Empire with the former Soviet Union and the Federation with the U.S. in such a quite simplistic manner.

The Federation threat to the Klingons and Romulans and Cardassians and whomever isn't really one of a military nature. The threat is more economical and having something of a pluralistic society. The Federation has an open society where new ideas can germinate and take hold. They have an economy (of a sort) and production infrastructure that could beggar the Klingons and whoever else if they wanted. It's more analogous to today than some decades ago that military strength isn't enough today because an economic superpower could wreck you harder and longer than any simple military superiority. And that is the real analogy.

The explosion of Praxis should have been shown as but the latest in a long string of mishaps underlying that the Klingons can't compete with the Federation simply because they are economically, and culturally, disadvantaged. In TOS' "Day Of The Dove" Kang's wife Mara mentions the Klingons inhabiting many poor planets and thus they always have to push outward. Towards the end of DS9 Ezri Dax mentions she thinks the Klingon Empire is a dying culture because they are still stuck in old ways while trying to exist in a modern world, or galaxy in Trek terms. The fact is the Klingons are lousy managers. They have a history of raiding, conquering, plundering and then moving on. But there appears to be little history of building and developing. Those "poor" planets Mara mentions probably weren't poor in the beginning or at all still yet the Klingons plundered only what was obvious and then called it a day.

More back to the original issue. The Enterprise C was supposed to lose no matter what. The Klingons were supposed to have some evidence that the E-C at least made an attempt to defend a Klingon world. But supposedly the E-C coming forward in time supposedly erases that evidence? But even if there is no evidence of a Federation vessel trying to aid a Klingon colony then how is that the basis for a war? The problem is we're not given enough information. Something else had to have been brewing to lead to a war between the Federation and the Empire. Perhaps the Federation and the Klingons were at a crucial point and the actions of the E-C tip things in favour of a treaty because it's an act of goodwill and genuine intent that the Klingons can understand. It diffuses lingering distrust. Perhaps the absence of the E-C meant lingering distrust and doubt leads to open warfare.

The Klingons accept a detente and eventually a treaty, not because of a desire for peace and mutual goodwill, but because they're forced to accept they can't continue as they had been. The real change in Klingon culture and attitudes probably starts to happen after detente and treaty because they become evermore exposed to other ideas and advantages the Federation's worlds enjoy. And this is where Ezri Dax's statement comes in. The Klingons are in danger of dying out culturally if they hold onto ways that don't work anymore.

The illogic in "Yesterday's Enterprise" is that a beggared society as inferred from TOS and then TUC could regain sufficient military capability within several decades to threaten the Federation with defeat in open warfare. It would mean the Klingons perhaps did make some significant changes in their society and that the Federation military forces were really not up to the task even with having a better industrial infrastructure.

 

[Forbin]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

I've always been under the impression that The Undiscovered Country laid the groundwork for the cessation of hostilities. Nothing more, nothing less. Proceeding from that point to an actual peace treaty, the road might be long and bumpy.

Like a Klingon's forehead!
:rimshot:

 

[Mister_Atoz]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

Actually it's implied TUC that the explosion may have damaged the Klingon home world, there are snippets of dialogue implying that the planet will have to be evacuated. I suppose it's the potential loss of the Klingon homeworld that is causing the crisis and not so much the destruction of their key energy facility.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

Actually it's implied TUC that the explosion may have damaged the Klingon home world, there are snippets of dialogue implying that the planet will have to be evacuated. I suppose it's the potential loss of the Klingon homeworld that is causing the crisis and not so much the destruction of their key energy facility.

Well while it doesn't count for much, but the novels have Praxis as the moon of the klingon homeworld which would really cause a lot of problems for the planet just by being gone in addition to all the crap it likely put in the atmosphere.

 

[Anwar]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

But look at the size of that shockwave that hit the Excelsior hundreds of light-years away, a blast that huge right up close would've immediately destroyed/devastated the homeworld.

Besides, they say it's a "Klingon Moon" not "The Homeworld Moon". It could've been nearby but not their actual moon.

In TOS it's made clear that even resource poor the Klingons were militarily strong enough to fight the Feds as equals.

I think that by the time of the ENT-C they had recovered enough from the Praxis incident that they could once again fight the Feds and things were at a rough patch. But then the ENT-C sacrificed itself and this defused existing tensions. So it wasn't that the ENT-C's removal itself caused the war but that it's actions stopped the war that was already on its way.

 

[Xerxes1979]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

The post Praxis crisis was to have killed the Empire off in 50 years.

Stardate ST:VI + 50 years = 2343.

The Klingons had healed after their Chernobyl and a new peace treaty was needed to prevent them from becoming aggressive again.

 

[Anwar]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

Like I said, that explosion should've immediately destroyed Qo'nos. And even if it didn't an Empire like the Klingons couldn't have had THAT much trouble relocating to another world in 50 years.

 

[Gregzula813]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

The enterprise C sacrificing itself showed the klingons how great of an ally the federation can be and the ships destruction in defense of the planet was deemed honorable in the eyes of the empire. Without it the accords could easily have fallen apart. Even in DS9 Gowron withdrew from the accords. While true war never broke out between the federation and the empire at that time, it could have gone that way if not for the dominion threat. This episode only showed what might have been if the enterprise c had not made the sacrifice it did.

 

[HaventGotALife]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

There's all kinds of references to the second Khitomer Accords. The Federation, at some point between the series, has to sit down and write a peace treaty.

For instance, in The Way of the Warrior, Dr. Bashir says before firing on a Klingon ship "two decades of peace with the Klingons comes down to this."

 

[Paradon]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

Why the heck the Klingons put up with Federation for so long anyway, which I still don't get? If they hate the Fed so much, why sign a peace treaty with them when they had the upper hands...? This is just like them. Making other alien cultures out to be a fat head. DS9 showed what a pain the Dominion prove to be and was way too clever for the Fed to handled without helps from Klingons which was one of the major reasons why they win the war. The Klingons prove to be quite capable warriors on DS9 and was a thorn on the side for the Dominion and the Breens. Their energy disapator didn't work on Klingons technologies, after a few adjustments.

 

[RandyS]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

I've always been under the impression that The Undiscovered Country laid the groundwork for the cessation of hostilities. Nothing more, nothing less. Proceeding from that point to an actual peace treaty, the road might be long and bumpy.

Exactly. The Federation and the Klingons wouldn't just kiss and make up and there's instant peace. Beaucracy comes first.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

TUC's Khitomer conference is like the 2000 Camp David Summit with Clinton, Barak and Arafat. See how well that turned out for everyone.

Nobody ever said Khitomer ended in a succesful treaty, did they?

 

[indolover]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

The Trek VI accord may simply have been a detente, similar to how the UFP and the Klingons were in most of season 4/5 of DS9 (no formal treaty, but not formal enemies or allies either).

Besides, with the Klingons pacified to some degree, maybe securing close relations with them was not a Federation and by extension Starfleet priority. More time was spent, most likely, in exploring (maybe first contact with the Cardassians, who knows, or Betazed, the Tzenkethi, etc.) and then the eventual Tzenkethi, Tholian and Cardassian wars. Maybe when the Enterprise-C was destroyed, the UFP and Klingons were discussing closer ties, and the ship's destruction lent to the UFP being honourable.

 

[Maurice]

Re: Don't the events of TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" make no sense b

Like I said, that explosion should've immediately destroyed Qo'nos. And even if it didn't an Empire like the Klingons couldn't have had THAT much trouble relocating to another world in 50 years.

But you said it's "not 'The Homeworld Moon'". If not, why should it destroy Qo'nos? I always assumed it was the subspace shockwave from the explosion that damaged the planet's ozone layer, etc., not the proximity of the blast.