Look, the chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one (he said).
Donny's TOS Enterprise Interiors
- Thread starter Donny
- Start date
I'll be honest....flipping the shape of the Miranda torpedo launcher was not my intention! But I totally see it now that you mention it.
Experimenting some more now that I'm home. Hopefully I'll have a new concept before the night's over.
So I started off tonight with plyons with a slightly more angled look and a curved roll-bar and additional "pods" connecting the rollbar with the pylons. I also simplified the deflector pod, removing the side structures and just sticking with a tapered cylinder, and removed the "blister" connections from the nacelles as well.
I sear I wasn't consciously trying, but the result had the exact opposite effect of what I was trying to achieve, coincidentally, of looking even more like the TMP Miranda. Plus, I just don't like those "pods", and for the life of me can't come up with a non-weaponry function for them. And I don't like the curved roll bar, as it conflicts with the angular nature of most TOS accoutrements. Meh. Wasn't happy with it.
So I decided to review last night's roll bar/pylon combo, and realized I really really like it's overall shape. The vents up at the top were bothering me, so I moved them down to the pylons themselves, both inboard and outbard of the pylon structure (2 large vents per pylon instead of the Enterprise's 4). Moving the vents back closer to the nacelles makes more sense from an engineering standpoint and helps break up some of the empty space unveiled by the absence of the blisters. Since I'm using the missing Enterprise dorsal as an influence for the shape of the roll bar, I decided to go ahead and visualize that colored leading edge of the dorsal onto the leading edge of the roll bar, and figured go ahead and have it running down the pylons as well.
I don't quite know how to resolve the aft end of the deflector pod. Any ideas on that? I just quickly did a bevel in/out to have something there.
All in all, I think I like where I'm headed with the changes I made tonight. How bout you?
After I settle on a design for the deflector pod and roll-bar/pylons, I'm going to move on to other details.
I sear I wasn't consciously trying, but the result had the exact opposite effect of what I was trying to achieve, coincidentally, of looking even more like the TMP Miranda. Plus, I just don't like those "pods", and for the life of me can't come up with a non-weaponry function for them. And I don't like the curved roll bar, as it conflicts with the angular nature of most TOS accoutrements. Meh. Wasn't happy with it.
So I decided to review last night's roll bar/pylon combo, and realized I really really like it's overall shape. The vents up at the top were bothering me, so I moved them down to the pylons themselves, both inboard and outbard of the pylon structure (2 large vents per pylon instead of the Enterprise's 4). Moving the vents back closer to the nacelles makes more sense from an engineering standpoint and helps break up some of the empty space unveiled by the absence of the blisters. Since I'm using the missing Enterprise dorsal as an influence for the shape of the roll bar, I decided to go ahead and visualize that colored leading edge of the dorsal onto the leading edge of the roll bar, and figured go ahead and have it running down the pylons as well.
I don't quite know how to resolve the aft end of the deflector pod. Any ideas on that? I just quickly did a bevel in/out to have something there.
All in all, I think I like where I'm headed with the changes I made tonight. How bout you?
After I settle on a design for the deflector pod and roll-bar/pylons, I'm going to move on to other details.
I love where you're at, but I miss the nacelle blisters. With a vertical (or near-vertical?) connection, it feels like it needs something more there, even if not the blister...So I started off tonight with plyons with a slightly more angled look and a curved roll-bar and additional "pods" connecting the rollbar with the pylons. I also simplified the deflector pod, removing the side structures and just sticking with a tapered cylinder, and removed the "blister" connections from the nacelles as well.
I sear I wasn't consciously trying, but the result had the exact opposite effect of what I was trying to achieve, coincidentally, of looking even more like the TMP Miranda. Plus, I just don't like those "pods", and for the life of me can't come up with a non-weaponry function for them. And I don't like the curved roll bar, as it conflicts with the angular nature of most TOS accoutrements. Meh. Wasn't happy with it.
So I decided to review last night's roll bar/pylon combo, and realized I really really like it's overall shape. The vents up at the top were bothering me, so I moved them down to the pylons themselves, both inboard and outbard of the pylon structure (2 large vents per pylon instead of the Enterprise's 4). Moving the vents back closer to the nacelles makes more sense from an engineering standpoint and helps break up some of the empty space unveiled by the absence of the blisters. Since I'm using the missing Enterprise dorsal as an influence for the shape of the roll bar, I decided to go ahead and visualize that colored leading edge of the dorsal onto the leading edge of the roll bar, and figured go ahead and have it running down the pylons as well.
I don't quite know how to resolve the aft end of the deflector pod. Any ideas on that? I just quickly did a bevel in/out to have something there.
All in all, I think I like where I'm headed with the changes I made tonight. How bout you?
After I settle on a design for the deflector pod and roll-bar/pylons, I'm going to move on to other details.
As for the back of the aft of the pod, I'd look to the aft of the Connie secondary hull (minus the shuttlebay) for inspiration. The sensor / light, and / or perhaps the cutout (maybe flipped?), that sort of thing.
Though honestly I kinda dig the quick in out bevel, it makes the pod look like it's less an attachment and more a super-deflector.
I like the new pod from the front, though yeah overall it's now closer to the TMP version from some angles.
As @Norsehound mentioned before, how about some inspiration from Jefferies' concepts? Something like this "command pod" could be a good starting point for how to finish the aft section of the pod.
Also, the original TOS concept art brings another idea for the whole pylons/rollbar assembly: the original shuttle concept. The curved nacelle pylons (and the hard 90° angle they make to the horizontal connection) seem like they could be adapted for the Miranda, turned upside down. They have a distinct look and are uniquely TOS at the same time.
As @Norsehound mentioned before, how about some inspiration from Jefferies' concepts? Something like this "command pod" could be a good starting point for how to finish the aft section of the pod.
Also, the original TOS concept art brings another idea for the whole pylons/rollbar assembly: the original shuttle concept. The curved nacelle pylons (and the hard 90° angle they make to the horizontal connection) seem like they could be adapted for the Miranda, turned upside down. They have a distinct look and are uniquely TOS at the same time.
The curved rollball "corners" reminds me of the pylons on the Aurora, so I think that's good. And—
WAIT A SECOND. It just occurs to me that the pylons on the Aurora evoke that original shuttle concept! They angle down then back up to hold the nacelles! It's like there was no money for a new model so Jefferies just decided to use a Tholian ship hull to as the basis for this space VM bus, which is a version of his original shuttle concept. Hmmm...
WAIT A SECOND. It just occurs to me that the pylons on the Aurora evoke that original shuttle concept! They angle down then back up to hold the nacelles! It's like there was no money for a new model so Jefferies just decided to use a Tholian ship hull to as the basis for this space VM bus, which is a version of his original shuttle concept. Hmmm...
Why the L-junction to form the roll-bar if there's nothing on the corners? My brain is suggesting if you must suspend the pod above the hull in this fashion why not do it with direct-angle pylons, like The Larson with it's lone engine pod?
When I think about TOS Mirandas, I try to compare the original Consitution to the refit and analyze all those areas that were obviously changed in the refitting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe no aesthetic component of the original enterprise was carried to the refit, except the generalized layout (and possibly the curvature of the saucer?) Even the distance between the saucer and secondary hull was changed!
With that in mind it doesn't make sense for major components of the Miranda to be anywhere close to their refit counterparts, so I'm happy the pylons got nixed. But that's also why I feel they should be straightened, or in the very least dramatically different from the "refitted" Miranda. If the Enterprise's connectors received a massive switch, then shouldn't there also be a switch between the TOS Miranda and a refitted one?
When I think about TOS Mirandas, I try to compare the original Consitution to the refit and analyze all those areas that were obviously changed in the refitting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe no aesthetic component of the original enterprise was carried to the refit, except the generalized layout (and possibly the curvature of the saucer?) Even the distance between the saucer and secondary hull was changed!
With that in mind it doesn't make sense for major components of the Miranda to be anywhere close to their refit counterparts, so I'm happy the pylons got nixed. But that's also why I feel they should be straightened, or in the very least dramatically different from the "refitted" Miranda. If the Enterprise's connectors received a massive switch, then shouldn't there also be a switch between the TOS Miranda and a refitted one?
I like this roll bar / pylon config. OR you could go a bit farther afield and just put the sensor on a single pylon sticking up, a la the Kelvin. This would take it possibly closer to "upside down Enterprise" territory. But 1) the Reliant was upside down and 2) the original concept was that the Reliant was supposed to be an older Enterprise, wasn't it? I think the much smaller sensor package subverts this somewhat.
I like the tail of the sensor. It's got enough detail to not be boring. Other shapes I could think of? A rather short cone? Possibly the same kind of cylinders that are behind the Enterprise deflector, only facing aft?
Just spit balling. But I think you're looking pretty solid as it is.
I like the tail of the sensor. It's got enough detail to not be boring. Other shapes I could think of? A rather short cone? Possibly the same kind of cylinders that are behind the Enterprise deflector, only facing aft?
Just spit balling. But I think you're looking pretty solid as it is.
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The D7 is the closest any Jefferies pylon comes to the Reliant. There is no need for anything at the corners. And there is no need for a curve. It can just square off, like Datin would have built it to simplify construction.
http://img.trekmovie.com/tosrem/eot/old_tosr057_09.jpg
I also like your new pod, but see no reason to eliminate the squared-off details that flank the Enterprise deflector. They add detail and visually integrate the pod to the rollbar.
http://img.trekmovie.com/tosrem/eot/old_tosr057_09.jpg
I also like your new pod, but see no reason to eliminate the squared-off details that flank the Enterprise deflector. They add detail and visually integrate the pod to the rollbar.
Off-topic: God how I love the Jeffries Klingon battlecruiser, and especially that shot of the miniature from "Elaan of Troyius". It only took one glance to tell you (a) it's alien and (b) don't f**k with us.
On-topic: If you're soliciting opinions for what to do with the aft end of the deflector pod, how about some venty-looking detail like those louvered slats immediately aft of the "Bussard collector" domes (yeah yeah, I know that's not what they were called back in 1965) on the warp nacelles. Or maybe you could have a second dish pointing backwards like on Franz J's "dreadnought" class. Or perhaps another glowy dome thing like what's atop the bridge module. Or...
Oh and p.s. and also FWIW, I agree with adrias sofia... the vents were a nice visual feature on the rollbar.
I thought I would miss the blisters more than I do, but now that I've added the vent near the nacelle connection, it's not too bad. But I could go either way. I was mainly exploring how it looked without a blister, since it's inclusion looked a little too TMP-esque.
I was actually planning on adding the sensor/light to the aft of the deflector pod! But I want to stay away from shaping the aft of the pod like the aft of the Connie secondary hull, as I don't want the pod to look like a replacement/stand-in for the secondary hull.
That's a good idea about the original shuttle concept pylons! I'll try that out tonight. But I'll admit I'm not a fan of the "command pod", as that looks like it comes from a totally different design language, and makes me immediately think more of the Botany Bay DY-100 style of Jefferies ships.As @Norsehound mentioned before, how about some inspiration from Jefferies' concepts? Something like this "command pod" could be a good starting point for how to finish the aft section of the pod.
Also, the original TOS concept art brings another idea for the whole pylons/rollbar assembly: the original shuttle concept. The curved nacelle pylons (and the hard 90° angle they make to the horizontal connection) seem like they could be adapted for the Miranda, turned upside down. They have a distinct look and are uniquely TOS at the same time.
I'd thought about that, but to me the roll-bar is a design hallmark of the Miranda-class, and to omit it or replace it with a direct-angle pylon would be to render it another class alltogether.
I see your point. In my head-canon, the Miranda class is slightly newer than the Constitution-class, and I would therefore be okay with things looking a little more closer to the TMP-era look, such as more angles in the plyons, etc. I don't want to stray so far away from the TMP-Miranda that it looks like a different class of ship alltogether, nor do I want it to look like a TMP-Miranda with a TOS texture slapped on top. It's all about finding that balance.
Like I said up above, I defintiley want to keep the rollbar, as it's a hallmark of the Miranda-class, IMO, and I don't want the deflector pod to look like a stand-in for the Connie's secondary hull. I also see the Miranda-class as being newer than the Constitution-class.
I've toyed with the idea of having those cylinders behind the deflector mirrored on the aft of the pod, and even maybe another deflector dish on the back, like the Dreadnought. As Proffessor Moriarty has suggested:
Good ideas!
That's a good idea as well! I'll mock that up tonight and see how it looks.
Good point!
I was actually planning on adding those details to the pod once I settled on the final shape!
Do you mean the Constellation class?I was thinking the saucer would be closer to the constitution class ones. Something like this
I like that approach. This could be an opportunity to lay track toward TMP's design aesthetic, finding the middle ground... maybe also take some cues from Jefferies Phase II design?
Ah! This makes sense, because with that mindset you can start pulling from the Phase-II concepts and totally justify the design. It works wonders since it's literally the transition between the two eras (my own headcanon also acknowledges it as canonical- Phase-II designs were easily superceeded by the Enterprise refit to the point Phase-II was hopscotched over).
I think that would work well on this, actually!
No I mean Constitution. I know the image is more Constellation, but I was thinking more of a connie saucer without the notches but I see where Donny is heading with this!
@Donny First of all, insert the usual superlatives here. Doing great work as always.
Suggestions:
-The struts look too TWOK to me still; Maybe just carrying the aft edge straight down to the nacelle without the angled sweep-back? Leave the sweep-back for the refit maybe...
-I like the pods on the roll-bar bend better than the naked bends. Maybe they could be high-power tractor beams for towing distressed or impounded vessels*.
-I like the idea of a boxy sensor nacelle but not the one you presented. Maybe the boxy part could be a bit more subdued, maybe flowing out of two of the three secondary hull boxes mentioned by @aridas sofia and @Henoch. There could even be a recessed aft sensor similar to the ones on the Starliner.
-You probably did the level based on decks or something, but the upper Reliant-esque superstructure would look better if it were flush with the base of the B/C deck superstructure.
-I'm hoping that the two black areas on the top will greeblies-free.
*(I've always thought of the Miranda as the 'enforcer' to the Constitution's 'explorer'. The kind of vessel that patrols space lanes, chases pirates, rescues vessels in distress, etc., within the bounds of the Federation. )
Suggestions:
-The struts look too TWOK to me still; Maybe just carrying the aft edge straight down to the nacelle without the angled sweep-back? Leave the sweep-back for the refit maybe...
-I like the pods on the roll-bar bend better than the naked bends. Maybe they could be high-power tractor beams for towing distressed or impounded vessels*.
-I like the idea of a boxy sensor nacelle but not the one you presented. Maybe the boxy part could be a bit more subdued, maybe flowing out of two of the three secondary hull boxes mentioned by @aridas sofia and @Henoch. There could even be a recessed aft sensor similar to the ones on the Starliner.
-You probably did the level based on decks or something, but the upper Reliant-esque superstructure would look better if it were flush with the base of the B/C deck superstructure.
-I'm hoping that the two black areas on the top will greeblies-free.
*(I've always thought of the Miranda as the 'enforcer' to the Constitution's 'explorer'. The kind of vessel that patrols space lanes, chases pirates, rescues vessels in distress, etc., within the bounds of the Federation. )
