Dominon War... World War II?

[Sisko4Life]

Anyone else notice striking similarities between the two conflicts? Almost like the writers just pulled the ideas straight from the history book?

After reluctantly signing a treaty with the Federation, the Cardassians (Germany) are forbidden to mobilize or have ships placed in the Demilitarized Zone (Rhineland). The Klingon-Cardassian War (World War I) left the Cardassians (Germany) in shambles, and lost colonies to the Klingons and the Maquis (Poland, Belgium, Demark, Austria), greatly diminishing their sphere of influence. Cardassians (Germans) were embarrassed and a Gul named Dukat (Hitler) wouldn't take this anymore. Despite diplomacy of the Detapa Council (Government signing Treaty of Versailles), Dukat (Hitler) made it known that Cardassia (Germany) would regain all that was lost. He allied with a mysterious power from the other part of the galaxy (world) called the Dominion (Japan) who already had infiltration controlling major powers (Italy). Dukat (Hitler) joined forces with the Dominion (Japan and Italy) to form the greatest threat to the Federation Alliance (Allied nations) ever. Immediately after the alliance was made (Axis powers), Dukat (Hitler) launced a swift massive attack on all lost territory completely wiping out the Maquis colonies (Poland) and driving back the Klingons (surrounding nations). The Dominion (Axis Powers) launched an intensive attack on the outskirts of the Federation (Western France), demolishing the Demilitarized Zone (Rhineland) and capturing Betazed in record time (Paris). It was thought that such a victory would make Earth (Britain) in reach. With reinforcements coming from the Gamma Quadrant (Japan) the Dominion prepared a savage thrust into the heart of the Federation (Soviet Union) only to be completely wiped out by the Prophets (Russia's harsh winter!!!) The Dominion (Axis) then heard of a peace conference between the Federation (Allied) and the Romulans (United States) in which the Romulans (United States) were openly helping the Allies. The Dominion retaliated by blowing up a Romulan shuttlecraft (Pearl Harbor), bringing the Romulans (United States) into the war. This tipped the war into allied favor, as they lauched an offensive to reclaim lost territory and an invasion of the Chin'toka system (France). Surrounded, a deranged Dukat (Hitler) sought refuge by killing himself and moving to the afterlife with the Pah-wraiths as the allied forces pushed on to victory from all sides...

 

[Ace1701A]

Yes, they were quite obvious, although Sisko's plan to bring in the Romulans is reminiscent of the infamous Zimmermann Telegram from WWI, and the Romulans original peace treaty with the Dominion is of course similar to the Soviet Union/Russia's treaty with Hitler in the early part of WWII.

And while you're right that some events would make the Romulans = USA, for the most part, the Federation seemed to equal the US/UK, the Klingons = more of the UK, esp. with regards to the aftermath described by Section 31's Sloan, and the Romulans = Soviet Union/Russia. Thus, at the end of the war, the Romulans and Federation seem headed for a new cold war (though by Nemesis, the writer said he had more in mind the TOS idea of Klingons = Soviet Union and thus Romulans = cold war China).

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

The other major World War II similarity I noticed was this...if you look at the way the fleet battle sequences are portrayed, it's very easy to get a sort of D-Day/Battle of Britain kind of imagery from the massive close-formation fleets. You don't see that sort of formation in 21st century warfare very often anymore...it's an extremely brazen thing to do. But it definitely evokes a different time period--and the clear contrast between good and evil, world struggle for survival that most people remember WWII for.

 

[Timo]

Frankly, that part to me looks more like Gibson's Braveheart and its 1990s successors. Or any of the 1930s war spectacles, or the classic injuns vs. cowboys. It's imagery that is familiar to us - but WWII or even WWI battles are not imagery that would be familiar to us, because nobody was there to film Kursk or Somme from an aircraft. And the view of those who actually were there would be radically different.

There were no naval battles that would even remotely have looked like DS9 in WWII. Most of the combat between capital ships was well beyond visual range, with battleships exchanging fire at dozens of kilometers, or aircraft carriers at hundreds. Small ship action was not integrated with capital ship action. WWI would be a closer naval analogy, but it is more likely that the creators once again went farther than that, all the way to Hollywood and its portrayal of pre-18th century naval fighting.

Which IMHO is rather refreshing. If the fighting in DS9 really resembled WWII or WWI, it would be unrealistically realistic. Trek is supposed to take place in the far future, when things are different: technologies, doctrines, goals of war and even the motivations of the individual soldiers should differ from what we are familiar with. That world may be 300 fictional years from today, but it looks more like something a thousand years in the future at least, sociologically if not technologically speaking.

For the most part, the writers were forced to rely on that which they and the audiences were familiar with, yeah. But since most of them, writers or audience alike, would not be familiar with WWII let alone WWI, merely with the fiction of it seen in media, it's understandable if the writers went fishing a bit farther...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Sisko4Life]

And while you're right that some events would make the Romulans = USA, for the most part, the Federation seemed to equal the US/UK, the Klingons = more of the UK, esp. with regards to the aftermath described by Section 31's Sloan, and the Romulans = Soviet Union/Russia. Thus, at the end of the war, the Romulans and Federation seem headed for a new cold war (though by Nemesis, the writer said he had more in mind the TOS idea of Klingons = Soviet Union and thus Romulans = cold war China).

Yeah, that was my situation when describing the Romulans. They had similarities in both the Soviet Union and the United States. However, the Dominion never made it to the stage of openly invading a neutral Romulus. And if they ever did, I don't think the Romulans would be able to stalement them in the Romulan System (Moscow, lol). So I had to make due... lol. As much as we want the Federation and Romulans to be the United States and the Soviet Union for the after effect, the Rommies have enough of both.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I was actually looking at more of an aerial than naval parallel. Despite the naval terminology, the way ships engage each other in three dimensions really calls to mind an Air Force parallel rather than a naval one once they come into close range.

Whether realistic or not for the future, I think you're dead on with your statement that the writers chose to rely on imagery they expected to be familiar.

But I am very surprised by your statement that you think the majority of viewers would've been ignorant of the World Wars. I think I would've easily caught that even when I was in grade school.

 

[cultcross]

Whatever its historical basis, I always thought the Dominion War was one of the best thought out fictional wars I've seen on TV. I've been re-watching DS9 from the beginning, and I'd really forgotten how well it was done. No sudden conflict from nothing over some minor territory violation as Trek usually does (how many times did we hear Picard say some tiny thing like stepping into the Neutral Zone would 'mean war'?), but a long, drawn out deterioration of relationships, mistakes and bad choices on both sides, multiple layered and interesting causes, and a number of 'trigger' events leading to the truly open conflict.
On the 'Home front', the situation goes in spurts of rumour-based morale shifting, from initial fear to a blasé nature, to changeling paranoia, to a 'blitz spirit' open-war resolve. We see Starfleet officers move through the series from explorers and diplomats to armed explorers to full on soldiers, and we see the effect that has on all the cast, from battle-hardened O'Brien to young naive Julian, and see the burden of leadership becoem ever heavier on Sisko's shoulders, as his backwater station simulataneously becomes the frontline of an interstellar war and a religious revolution.

I really think fictional war has rarely been more realistically portrayed on TV.

 

[arch101]

Another obvious similarity to WWII was the Founders racial predjudices (as well as the Cardassians) and the Founder's genocidal tendancies. The "scorched earth" policy when they knew they were going to lose is also Nazi-like.

 

[Sisko4Life]

^^^^ Wow, how could I forget to mention that in my little story. Good point.

 

[Odon]

The surrender scene at the end of the series definitely looked like it was inspired by the signing of the Japanese surrender on that battleship (forget the name).

 

[Timo]

The Missouri, I think.

However, the Japanese surrender was received off the shores of the Japanese capital, under the guns of a vastly superior enemy. The DS9 treaty was signed far away from Dominion homelands, and there was much less to indicate that one side had been crushed, forced to comply or disarmed.

Indeed, the nature of the peace treaty was left quite vague. During the course of the final episode, we never learn e.g. whether the Dominion agreed to withdraw from the Alpha Quadrant, or the Federation from Gamma; what rules would apply on traffic through the wormhole from there on; whether some sort of disarmament was required of the Dominion; etc.

In the end, we can't even be sure which side dictated (most of) the terms in the treaty. The Alpha allies, who had triumphed locally? Or the Dominion, which had the stronger military overall?

Which IMHO was a nice touch, even if wholly dictated by time concerns and the like. That the war wasn't truly wrapped up in a scene and a half was very realistic.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Cyke101]

I'd have to concur with the idea that the Dominion War was a good parallel to World War II. However, I just rewatched the Seige of AR-558 and it seemed to have quite a bit of Vietnam influence to it. Lo and behold, the director himself was a Vietnam vet. The episode itself seems very reminiscent of movies from the early 70s, movies that explored themes of violence as opposed to glorifying and romanticizing violence.

Now that I look back at it, a critically-acclaimed episode like Sacrifice of the Angels is deep and well-crafted, but the violence is fairly cartoony and heroic; violence in episodes like "Seige" and "Rocks and Shoals" portrays violence as tragic consequence. Gotta love how the war gave the DS9 writers so many themes to work with.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I'd have to concur with the idea that the Dominion War was a good parallel to World War II. However, I just rewatched the Seige of AR-558 and it seemed to have quite a bit of Vietnam influence to it. Lo and behold, the director himself was a Vietnam vet. The episode itself seems very reminiscent of movies from the early 70s, movies that explored themes of violence as opposed to glorifying and romanticizing violence.

Vietnam...or also World War I. If you ever watch the movie version of All Quiet on the Western Front, it has a very similar feel to it.

 

[Robert Treat]

I think it was intended to be a similarity, maybe even a tribute. Admiral Ross quoted another military leader from 400 years earlier saying "Today the guns are silent..."

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The Missouri, I think.

However, the Japanese surrender was received off the shores of the Japanese capital, under the guns of a vastly superior enemy. The DS9 treaty was signed far away from Dominion homelands, and there was much less to indicate that one side had been crushed, forced to comply or disarmed.

Indeed, the nature of the peace treaty was left quite vague. During the course of the final episode, we never learn e.g. whether the Dominion agreed to withdraw from the Alpha Quadrant, or the Federation from Gamma; what rules would apply on traffic through the wormhole from there on; whether some sort of disarmament was required of the Dominion; etc.

In the end, we can't even be sure which side dictated (most of) the terms in the treaty. The Alpha allies, who had triumphed locally? Or the Dominion, which had the stronger military overall?

Which IMHO was a nice touch, even if wholly dictated by time concerns and the like. That the war wasn't truly wrapped up in a scene and a half was very realistic.

Timo Saloniemi

It's true - you could interpret that treaty as the Dominion getting what they'd wanted all along - for the AQ interlopers to just stay away.

 

[Not Relevant]

It’s WWI.

 

[kkt]

You replied to an 11 year old thread just to put in two words that had already been said?

 

[Not Relevant]

Clearly, yes. Any other questions?

 

[Not Relevant]

Pardon me — sir?

 

[Not Relevant]

I apologize. I did not realize what I did was against the rules.