Whats the deal with them? Where did Eris go that time? another area of the station? how did she get back to the Gamma Q? Do the dominion have cloaks we don't know about? any of the writers ever comment on this?
Dominion Transporters
- Thread starter PhoenixIreland
- Start date
I don't think it has ever been said what happened to Eris. We do know though that Dominion Transporter Technology is extremely advanced when compared to that of Starfleet. In Season Seven of DS9 Dukat, for example, was able to beam Kira from DS9 all the way to Empok Nor using a Dominion inspired transporter.
Memory Alpha says they have a range of 3 light years. I don't know where they get that number from. But perhaps they can beam through the wormhole??
Eris could have beamed to a cloaked ship; just because we never saw a Dominion cloak doesn't mean they didn't exist, just that the Dominion didn't choose to reveal their existence to its enemies.
Or Eris could have beamed to a non-cloaked location, perhaps within the station, and then cloaked herself from sensors. It's quite possible that the station was teeming with Founder agents at that point of the story already, ready to help Eris in her mission.
Or Eris could have committed suicide. At that point of the story, we didn't yet know that the Vorta would be self-concerned bastards. Instead, Eris could have been a fanatically loyal servant who saw her usefulness coming to end.
Or then that was just another of Dukat's mindfucks. It's equally possible that Dukat's followers in "Covenant" beamed Kira from her quarters to a nearby freighter, then flew to Empok Nor, docked there and carried the still unconscious Kira to the middle of the room where she woke up.
Worf claims that he knows the Dominion transporters can have a range of three lightyears, when focused with a transponder like the one Dukat slipped Kira with. But how could he have this information? None of his known adventures would have involved such a device performing in such a manner. He's probably just bullshitting to make himself important.
Timo Saloniemi
Or Eris could have beamed to a non-cloaked location, perhaps within the station, and then cloaked herself from sensors. It's quite possible that the station was teeming with Founder agents at that point of the story already, ready to help Eris in her mission.
Or Eris could have committed suicide. At that point of the story, we didn't yet know that the Vorta would be self-concerned bastards. Instead, Eris could have been a fanatically loyal servant who saw her usefulness coming to end.
Or then that was just another of Dukat's mindfucks. It's equally possible that Dukat's followers in "Covenant" beamed Kira from her quarters to a nearby freighter, then flew to Empok Nor, docked there and carried the still unconscious Kira to the middle of the room where she woke up.
Worf claims that he knows the Dominion transporters can have a range of three lightyears, when focused with a transponder like the one Dukat slipped Kira with. But how could he have this information? None of his known adventures would have involved such a device performing in such a manner. He's probably just bullshitting to make himself important.
Timo Saloniemi
Worf claims that he knows the Dominion transporters can have a range of three lightyears, when focused with a transponder like the one Dukat slipped Kira with. But how could he have this information? None of his known adventures would have involved such a device performing in such a manner. He's probably just bullshitting to make himself important.
Or Starfleet could have just examined a Dominion transporter and found out their limitations, either from Sisko's salvaged Jem Hadar ship or from studying wreckage recovered from one of their numerous battles with the bugs.
Hmm, true enough. Although it would still be a bit odd for the captured ships to feature this transponder thing. Would the Starfleet analysts even realize it for what it was, when Federation science doesn't appear to have anything comparable? Fed "transporter boosters", be it those pattern enhancer pole things or perhaps the fancy button of ST:Nemesis, don't seem to have range-increasing features, just penetration-enhancing ones.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
Well, while it appears that the Federation wasn't able to reverse engineer the technology, that doesn't mean they wouldn't have known what it was, or been looking for it in the first place, since they'd already seen the Dominion's transporters display abilities that - at least appeared - to be beyond their own.
And why wouldn't the range enhancers be standard equipment for Dominion troops and ships? Seems like a pretty handy device to have if you need to get your guys, or a stranded Founder or Vorta (since they'd be unlikely to waste them on the disposable Jem Hadar), out of a tight jam.
For all we know it could be a pretty cheap piece of Dom tech, that only works in conjunction with their transporters and was unable to be replicated by Starfleet.
And why wouldn't the range enhancers be standard equipment for Dominion troops and ships? Seems like a pretty handy device to have if you need to get your guys, or a stranded Founder or Vorta (since they'd be unlikely to waste them on the disposable Jem Hadar), out of a tight jam.
For all we know it could be a pretty cheap piece of Dom tech, that only works in conjunction with their transporters and was unable to be replicated by Starfleet.
Wouldn't interstellar transporters put quite a twist in the tales involving crashed Jem'Hadar parties, though?
Of course, the Jemmies might keep the technology secret from our heroes until one of their ships came within rescue range. And the heroes might not have figured out the transponder thing yet by the time of, say, "Rocks and Shoals", let alone "Hippocratic Oath".
Timo Saloniemi
Of course, the Jemmies might keep the technology secret from our heroes until one of their ships came within rescue range. And the heroes might not have figured out the transponder thing yet by the time of, say, "Rocks and Shoals", let alone "Hippocratic Oath".
Timo Saloniemi
Given how much other Vorta seem to know about what Eris learned while on DS9 and about Sisko, its probably safe to assume that she was transported to the GQ- either through the wormhole, or to a ship on the fringe of Dominion space... they may even have relays for that. As O'Brien thought, I'm pretty sure the Dominion didn't have cloaks- tho if they're really clever, by the time they were done in the AQ- they should... LOL
We might also speculate that Eris didn't transport anywhere, but stayed right there - thus becoming the first permanent Founder agent on DS9.
We have only her word that she was a Vorta in the first place. She would have been a bit more effective an agent if she were a Founder instead, capable of a variety of shapeshifting tricks including pretending to be transported away. Not too different from the fire trick that Laas did...
Timo Saloniemi
We have only her word that she was a Vorta in the first place. She would have been a bit more effective an agent if she were a Founder instead, capable of a variety of shapeshifting tricks including pretending to be transported away. Not too different from the fire trick that Laas did...
Timo Saloniemi
Excuse me, but aren't the Jem'Hadar a prime example of the Dominion verifiably having invisibility technology?
The warriors themselves are famed for their invisibility. It would only make perfect sense for their ships to be invisible, too. And that's certainly the best kind of intimidation. If the Jem'Hadar weren't invisible, you would only have to fear them when you can see them. Now you have to fear them when you don't see anything: that empty chair there might be a Jem'Hadar. Or that empty corner there. This empty room could be full of Jem'Hadar, just waiting for you to voice a word of dissent...
Perhaps all Jem'Hadar ships indeed have cloaks as a standard feature, but it just so happens that the Jem'Hadar go to battle fully visible - just like they do when they fight on foot. That would be a doctrinal choice, perhaps dictated by technological shortcomings that make it too difficult for them to fight when invisible.
Really, whenever we see a Jem'Hadar ship, it wants to be seen. When it doesn't, it usually manages to sneak up to our heroes. Maybe the Jem'Hadar simply decloak some distance away from the actual battle, so as not to reveal their capabilities to their victims? It seems to be working, too: the victims only babble about conventional ambush techniques when they get caught with their pants down, like in "The Die is Cast".
Timo Saloniemi
The warriors themselves are famed for their invisibility. It would only make perfect sense for their ships to be invisible, too. And that's certainly the best kind of intimidation. If the Jem'Hadar weren't invisible, you would only have to fear them when you can see them. Now you have to fear them when you don't see anything: that empty chair there might be a Jem'Hadar. Or that empty corner there. This empty room could be full of Jem'Hadar, just waiting for you to voice a word of dissent...
Perhaps all Jem'Hadar ships indeed have cloaks as a standard feature, but it just so happens that the Jem'Hadar go to battle fully visible - just like they do when they fight on foot. That would be a doctrinal choice, perhaps dictated by technological shortcomings that make it too difficult for them to fight when invisible.
Really, whenever we see a Jem'Hadar ship, it wants to be seen. When it doesn't, it usually manages to sneak up to our heroes. Maybe the Jem'Hadar simply decloak some distance away from the actual battle, so as not to reveal their capabilities to their victims? It seems to be working, too: the victims only babble about conventional ambush techniques when they get caught with their pants down, like in "The Die is Cast".
Timo Saloniemi
But despite what some Trek refs say- the Jem'Hadar cloak is biological- its not 'technology' per se, they're about large numbers overwhelming all opposition. I'm sure if they had cloaks they may use them- but remember a lot of cloaks can be "seen through" so they probably opt to throw a huge number of small tough ships instead of risking a few with useless (potentially) technology.
Also, just re-watching "The Jem'Hadar"- O'Brien confirms that Eris did not re-materialize on the station, and no ships were near by- and we can assume he made a *very* careful sweep. I'm guessing long range "get out plan" transport... I doubt the wormhole, wouldn't it have opened?
Then again, this would be the same guy who moments before had thought that security forcefields would contain the Jem'Hadar envoy. The enemy was pretty alien; maybe O'Brien just didn't know what to look for?
After "Destiny", subspace signals could get through without making the wormhole mouth do its thing. Before that, though (and "Jem'Hadar" does come before), one would think that the hole would indeed have to open.
Timo Saloniemi
Well, who would think anyone with their face exposed would walk through a containment field with their eyes open? I mean, I might try it if I was in a protective suit...
And you'd think O'Brien would have an idea of sorts since I'm sure they were trying to scan the Jem'Hadar ship when it popped over...
-If through the wormhole, then being beamed to the GQ makes even more sense... and I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that that was the idea...
Or maybe its just to add mystery to the whole thing...
98 ERIS (OPTICAL)
Hits a concealed Transporter device and DEMATERIALIZES just
like the Jem'Hadar did.
99 NEW ANGLE
As everyone reacts to Eris's disappearance by going to their
stations.
DEEP SPACE: "The Jem'Hadar" - REV. 04/22/94 - ACT FIVE 58.
99 CONTINUED:
O'BRIEN
(checking panels)
I'm picking up a transporter
signature, but I can't trace it.
She didn't rematerialize anywhere on
the station and there are no ships
nearby.
BASHIR
Then where is she?
A beat. No one has an answer.
KIRA
She'll be back. The question is...
who she'll bring with her?
And you'd think O'Brien would have an idea of sorts since I'm sure they were trying to scan the Jem'Hadar ship when it popped over...
-If through the wormhole, then being beamed to the GQ makes even more sense... and I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that that was the idea...
Or maybe its just to add mystery to the whole thing...
98 ERIS (OPTICAL)
Hits a concealed Transporter device and DEMATERIALIZES just
like the Jem'Hadar did.
99 NEW ANGLE
As everyone reacts to Eris's disappearance by going to their
stations.
DEEP SPACE: "The Jem'Hadar" - REV. 04/22/94 - ACT FIVE 58.
99 CONTINUED:
O'BRIEN
(checking panels)
I'm picking up a transporter
signature, but I can't trace it.
She didn't rematerialize anywhere on
the station and there are no ships
nearby.
BASHIR
Then where is she?
A beat. No one has an answer.
KIRA
She'll be back. The question is...
who she'll bring with her?
I'm liking the idea she was a changeling, the first infiltrator.
Maybe O'Brian didn't detect her re-materializing and she just shape shifted and was off
Maybe O'Brian didn't detect her re-materializing and she just shape shifted and was off
Even with an order, I'm not sure a Jem'Hadar would have been able to treat a founder the way the Jem'Hadar do in that ep. The Jem'Hadar don't like Vorta- and note that despite the act, the Jem'Hadar did seem to be enjoying that assignment- he smiled- with his teeth no less! (LOL)
Plus in that case- if the founders wanted Odo back- she could have nabbed him- tangled him up and brought her with him...
Then again... if she was that would explain how the Founders seemed to know so much about the Feds... tho they could have gotten it from the AQ ships they caught in there territory...
Plus in that case- if the founders wanted Odo back- she could have nabbed him- tangled him up and brought her with him...
Then again... if she was that would explain how the Founders seemed to know so much about the Feds... tho they could have gotten it from the AQ ships they caught in there territory...
^ The Founders wanted Odo to choose to come back to the Great Link not force him to be with them.
If Eris was a Founder she wouldn't need a ship to beam to, open space doesn't bother them.
Marie1, your sig quote, is it right? He sings lounges would seem to make more sense.
If Eris was a Founder she wouldn't need a ship to beam to, open space doesn't bother them.
Marie1, your sig quote, is it right? He sings lounges would seem to make more sense.
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