Does the red "EXIT" sign and the department store-looking "NO SMOKING" sign in....

[Damian]

Eh, it wasn't exactly Spock, because Spock's katra wasn't yet back in his body.

True, but I still think that would make it less likely for her to outright betray him. She shared something very intimate with him that I think would make her unwilling to outright betray him.

When I had heard Meyer considered making the character Saavik it just didn't 'feel' right to me. Like Scotty in "That Which Survives" something about it just made me feel the same as Roddenberry in that case. Part of it is just hard to explain. I for one was happy to see it was another character (also, I really wasn't interested in seeing Saavik portrayed by yet a 3rd actress since he seemed to have no intent on bringing back Alley--who I sincerely doubt would have returned anyway, or Curtis---it was probably best to create a new character for that reason alone).

Yeah, but once again we run into Meyer's anti-futurist sensibilities. In "Spock's Brain," we're explicitly shown that the standard uniforms have built-in temperature controls that can keep the wearers warm even in Arctic conditions. Yet in TWOK, suddenly the crew are wearing heavy parkas on landing parties.

So if the fabrics are able to keep the wearers comfortable like you say, why would they need to pile on extra layers?

I think what XCV was arguing was that reasons of comfort wouldn't preclude the uniforms in TWOK. They may be cumbersome (though at least the jackets seemed easy enough to put on), but that comfort wouldn't be an issue in either case.

I do have to admit I sort of liked the uniforms in TWOK. They had a bit of a Navy feel (yes, dress uniform, I agree) and they looked good on the characters (which I believe was the intent). But I still felt they had a bit of a futuristic feel to them.

TMP uniforms just didn't hit it off I thought. Some of them I didn't mind (i.e. when Kirk was wearing a white short sleave shirt that wasn't too bad) but they weren't the best. I think in TMP had they used black pants with the primary uniform, instead of making the same color as the shirt, it might have worked out better.

 

[Christopher]

I like the TMP uniforms because they look more functional and practical than just about any other Trek uniforms we've seen. And they look futuristic, with the perscan buckles built in. Not to mention the added plausibility of the security armor and the engineers' radiation suits. They were really well thought through.

 

[Damian]

I like the TMP uniforms because they look more functional and practical than just about any other Trek uniforms we've seen. And they look futuristic, with the perscan buckles built in. Not to mention the added plausibility of the security armor and the engineers' radiation suits. They were really well thought through.

Yeah, I can see that. They did retain the radiation and security suits in the later films, and I remember reading some of the crewman outfits were actually dyed TMP uniforms (glad to see nothing gets wasted at least).

I think they were trying to balance the original series uniform with something new. The miss for me was the pants being the same color as the shirt. Like the pale blue shirt and matching pants. I know some people compared them to pajamas and I can see that being a valid complaint. That's why I said if they had kept the pants black, it would have offset the color a bit.

Now I still believe Meyer would have wanted updated uniforms but some things were carried forward.

I also loved the look of the Enterprise in TMP in general. No matter the reason I was happy that was retained in TWOK and TSFS (even if some of the finer details were adjusted). Like Spock's science station being moved---which I do have to admit actually worked better in TWOK then TMP, it never made much sense to have Spock behind Kirk.

 

[jaime]

It was funny because of all the smoke from the battle simulation.

I like to think it was a starfleet student joke.

 

[Christopher]

They did retain the radiation and security suits in the later films

But not in TNG, frustratingly. Even in the height of the Dominion War on DS9, Starfleet officers were going into combat with no armor or helmets or protection of any kind -- it was ludicrous.

 

[Nyotarules]

But not in TNG, frustratingly. Even in the height of the Dominion War on DS9, Starfleet officers were going into combat with no armor or helmets or protection of any kind -- it was ludicrous.

You would think if our time can invent bulletproof vests the future could invent phaseproof ones

Re the Kitchen scene - in my head fanon the synthesised food tastes like crap and Kirk insisted on as much real food being served under his captaincy, his crew were eternally grateful.

 

[Timo]

You would think if our time can invent bulletproof vests the future could invent phaseproof ones

Which I guess hits the nail in the head - there's no such thing as a bulletproof vest today.

One might do shrapnelproof, for a certain value of shrapnel. That is incidental, after all: a piece of shrapnel is not the sworn enemy of the vest. But a bullet is, and can and will always be engineered to pierce the vest with ease.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Damian]

But not in TNG, frustratingly. Even in the height of the Dominion War on DS9, Starfleet officers were going into combat with no armor or helmets or protection of any kind -- it was ludicrous.

Now, you see, you gotta go use logic. Way to go

 

[Kor]

I wonder how the ships would have looked if Meyer had been allowed to have the exterior designs changed in line with his more utilitarian vision.

Kor

 

[Christopher]

I wonder how the ships would have looked if Meyer had been allowed to have the exterior designs changed in line with his more utilitarian vision.

They probably would've been made of wood and brass.

 

[XCV330]

Yeah, but once again we run into Meyer's anti-futurist sensibilities. In "Spock's Brain," we're explicitly shown that the standard uniforms have built-in temperature controls that can keep the wearers warm even in Arctic conditions. Yet in TWOK, suddenly the crew are wearing heavy parkas on landing parties.

So if the fabrics are able to keep the wearers comfortable like you say, why would they need to pile on extra layers?

Redundancy. In the field what can go wrong, will go wrong.

 

[J.T.B.]

That makes sense - everything seen in the Trilogy of movies (and VI) is basically official, ceremonial, diplomatic, political, legal and/or flag officer type stuff in nature.

On Reliant, Grissom and Excelsior, too?

 

[David cgc]

They probably would've been made of wood and brass.

So, a cross between the fittings on the -D and the hulls of the NX-01/Discovery.

 

[Kor]

A wood and brass starship sound like something from a "steampunk" Trek fan film I saw once.

Kor

 

[mb22]

 

[Jedman67]

We do see bulky uniform shirts in DS9 that are supposed to be armored. A bunch of people still get killed. Constant armoring up costs money in costumes and prep, and increases time on set. So much easier to just dispense with it. TNG had a decent budget but DS9 had more resources for that kind of stuff.

 

[Christopher]

Constant armoring up costs money in costumes and prep, and increases time on set. So much easier to just dispense with it.

The Stargate franchise managed to keep its cast in plausible body armor for 12 years, and it had a lower budget than Star Trek did.

 

[Jedman67]

The Stargate franchise managed to keep its cast in plausible body armor for 12 years, and it had a lower budget than Star Trek did.

The main cast rarely armored up, aside from a BDU and tactical/flak vest. Of course you had tons of extras in full body armor, but they were extras.
I'm guessing that the costumes were either military surplus or custom-tailored to look like actual uniforms, but likely cost no more than a couple hundred bucks per set; compared with Patrick Stewarts wool costume which was at least $1,000 a pop.
TNG had far more space battles, SG1 had more location shooting. TNG had six or seven main actors, while SG1 had just 5 permanent actors and a bunch of recurring. TNG was in Hollywood and SG1 filmed in Vancouver.
Overall, I think SG1 was able to stretch its budget further because it was set "today" rather than in the future, and its canadian location.
Budgets were pretty close though.

 

[Christopher]

I'm guessing that the costumes were either military surplus or custom-tailored to look like actual uniforms, but likely cost no more than a couple hundred bucks per set; compared with Patrick Stewarts wool costume which was at least $1,000 a pop.

Doesn't that just prove my point that TNG's costume budget was more than high enough to allow for building some body armor? Heck, if you want surplus, they used a ton of surplus sets and props and ship miniatures and stock footage from the TOS movies, so why couldn't they reuse the surplus security armor costumes that were made for TMP? Just re-dye them to fit 24th-century uniform colors, maybe tweak a few details to look a bit more advanced.

 

[Jedman67]

It doesn't prove your point. It's a good question though, and I can only speculate.