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Does the Federation "rule" the Galaxy? (ultimately)

sumbuddyx said:

I always figured that the Falcon could just travel between star systems without a hyperdrive, but having one meant they could cross the galaxy in minutes. In Empire they go from Hoth to the Anoat system to Bespin without a hyperdrive and I also never thought Hoth and Bespin were neighbours.

Kevman7987 said:

My theory about the Falcon was that Han was able to jury-rig some kind of a lightspeed engine that did not account for time-dilation so that they spent months (hours as they experienced it) going to Bespin. This also allows for Luke to get in some quality Yoda time.


Consider 47 Tucanae,

47 Tucanae is globular cluster located just outside our own galaxy. It is 120 light years across (@ 900,000 cubic LY's).

It possesses millions of stars and has an extremely dense core.

47 Tucanae is outside of the galactic disc but part of our galaxy being in its halo. It has an estimated mass of 700,000 times the mass of the Sun. Since most stars are red dwarfs much less massive than the Sun and since many stars are in double or multiple star systems, the total number of star systems is hard to estimate.

One million star systems would give a density of 1.111 per cubic light year. Five million star systems would give a density of 5.555 per cubic light year. Ten million star systems would give a density of 11.111 per cubic light year. That gives a volume of 0.09 cubic light years per star system.

If the average distance between star systems was 0.448 light years there would be 0.0899153 cubic light years per star system. If the average distance between star systems was 0.4485 light years there would be 0.0902167 cubic light years per star system. If the average distance between star systems is 0.448 light years and the Millennium Falcon could accelerate to almost exactly the speed of light it would take it about 0.448 years or 163.632 days to reach even the nearest star system, let alone Bespin.

Of course the average star density is in only the average parts of the 47 Tucanae cluster. In the outer parts the star density is much less and in the inner parts the star density is much greater. But it is a fact that many astronomical objects are dangerous to their neighbors or at least to the life forms on those neighbors. The closer a star is to its neighbors, the more likely it is that a close passage by another star will have flung its planets into interstellar space. And the more likely it is that all life on its planets will have been wiped out by radiation from nearby novas, supernovas, gamma ray bursters, etc. Certainly the x rays and gamma rays detected coming from 47 Tucanae indicate that the denser parts of the cluster are likely to be deadly for life forms. But Hoth has clearly gone for billions of years without having life wiped out.

Anyway the views of the stars from outer space in The Empire Strikes Back don't indicate that the stars are packed many times closer than in our region of our galaxy. You would be seeing tens and hundreds or even thousands of times as many stars in each space scene if they were that close together.

Thus the idea that the Millennium falcon somehow repaired its hyperdrive and then lost it again offscreen while travelling to Bespin seems to be the most logical one. Possibly it did travel part way at relativistic speeds affected by time dilation while months of outside time passed for Luke on Dagobah, but it must have traveled most of the distance off screen in a short period of time using the on again off again hyperdrive.
 
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DS9 is very close to Earth, to be fair; the DS9 TM said something like only 50 or 60 ly away? Granted strictly by a 1000 ly/yr measurement that'd be like 2.5 weeks of travel, and in-show it's probably not more than a few days, but maybe the 1000 ly/yr value is an average value over extremely long-term flight accounting for maintenance cycles and/or in areas not well-charted. Further, Cardassia seems to be the nearest system to Bajor based on all evidence, akin to Earth and Alpha Centauri, so the ~one day travel time there is pretty reasonable; they're probably no more than 5 ly apart.

And yeah, it would, though keep in mind that that's likely the longest distance between two points in the Federation. Honestly the Federation isn't even necessarily contiguous; most interstellar powers wouldn't necessarily need to be, in the sense of actively controlling territory.

The DS9 TM that you mention also says that Bajor and Cardassia Prime are 5.5 light years apart, a distance that no doubt gives many Bajorans and Cardassians nightmares. I don't know what the DS9 TM says but in "Fascination" Bajor is 300 light years from Regulus, a star that is 79 to 80 light years from Earth.
 
I apologize for not replying. After looking into this, it seems that there are different depictions modern Trek of both the Federation, and the Galaxy. There is the "Small Federation", and the "Large Federation." And the Galaxy is also presented differently in different episodes.

From the TNG writer's guide states that during Kirk's time, 4% of the Galaxy had been charted, and not explored. And in Picard's time, 19% charted. And Roddenberry(if it is he, who wrote this), wanted to depict a vast, endless galaxy. This is definitely captured in a select few season 1 and 2 episodes.

In his "What will not work" section, number 7, he writes:
7) Treating deep space as a local neighborhood.
Too often, script ideas show characters bouncing from solar system to solar system, planet to planet, without the slightest comprehension of the distances involved or the technologies required to support such travel. Fine(and even fun) on SPACE RANGERS but not on Star Trek.

Personally, I have a difficult time merging the Trek world with the real world. My interpretation of that universe is influenced by its depiction on TV, and how that depiction progresses. In DS9, we have a relatively small scale area(Earth to DS9 to Bajor to Ferenginar, etc.)
However, the dialogue suggests that it's not DS9's "neighborhood" that is small, it's the galaxy itself, that is small. Think of all the quotes using the term Alpha Quadrant.

"Earth...is the key to the Alpha Quadrant."
"...the fate of the Entire Alpha Quadrant..."
"...and save the Alpha Quadrant..."

And the idea behind Odo being sent towards the Federation was that the Founders knew of the Federation's existence, and was expecting that within 200 years, the Federation would expand to the point of contact with the dominion. The wormhole was unexpected. So, in the DS9 writing staff's mind, the Fed, by the year 2570 appr., would have expanded 50,000 LY outward and into the "Gamma Quadrant."

To the person who mentioned "Living Witness," yes, the whole "Doctor left to fly back to the AQ" thing would throw a wrench in this question.
 
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