• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Does ST09 make 'Nemesis' less consequential, or more tragic?

There's a huge difference between seeing someone in a state of shock (when Amanda died), and feeling their turmoil for yourself (the meld with Spock Prime).

I much prefer the subtle clues given as to Spock Prime's despair to some sort of re-enactment of "The Naked Time".
 
Yeah, Spock's put a fair amount of mental energy into NOT showing emotions. It's kind of like, his defining characteristic.
 
Gaith said:
Re: Does ST09 make 'Nemesis' less consequential, or more tragic?

Well, it certainly makes it easy to believe that Nemesis never happened... :p
Click to expand...
No offense, but if you're implying that ST09 erased Nemesis...I hate it when people say that. How many times does someone have to say alternate timeline?

Not the point, sorry. Not gonna derail the thread. Although, on the other hand, I wouldn't mind Threshold being erased...or Move Along Home...so if you dislike Nemesis as much as I dislike those episodes, go ahead and erase it. :)

Anyways, back on topic. ST09 doesn't make Nemesis any less consequential, at least not in my somewhat humble opinion. I hear where your coming from, about the Romulan Empire, but one planet does not an empire make. So I don't feel we've heard the last of the Romulans.
Nemesis still gave us a bit of closure for the E crew...Riker and Troi getting married, moving on to the Titan, Data's tragic death...all those are still meaningful and I do not feel they have been erased.
 
I've never really thought about it. Does STXI give the date when Spock goes through the black hole? He looked an awful lot older than in Unification. I guess it depends a bit on how much time has passed between the two films.

As for the inevitable Nemesis vs. STXI debate, I'm very fond of Nemesis. STXI was pretty poor in my view though. For what it's worth.
 
TiberiusMaximus said:
Anyways, back on topic. ST09 doesn't make Nemesis any less consequential, at least not in my somewhat humble opinion. I hear where your coming from, about the Romulan Empire, but one planet does not an empire make. So I don't feel we've heard the last of the Romulans.
Click to expand...

Tell that to Rome and the Roman Empire. For all we know 99% of Romulans lived on Romulus and most of their planets were governed by a fairly small garrison that kept the native populations planet bound and weaponless.
 
TiberiusMaximus said:
Although, on the other hand, I wouldn't mind Threshold being erased...or Move Along Home...so if you dislike Nemesis as much as I dislike those episodes, go ahead and erase it. :)
Click to expand...
Aye, that's what I meant. Should have said "it makes it easier to pretend Nemesis never happened." ;)
 
USS Bones said:
I've never really thought about it. Does STXI give the date when Spock goes through the black hole? He looked an awful lot older than in Unification. I guess it depends a bit on how much time has passed between the two films.
Click to expand...

Spock goes through the hole in 2387. I think that's 6 years after Nemesis. I think Unification takes place in the late 2360's.
 
It's 8 years after Nemesis, which was set in 2379. "Unification" was set in 2368 - 19 years before Spock goes back in time.

(yay Star Trek timeline at the back of "Voyages of Imagination"!)
 
I have to say, I don't get the Nemesis hate. The only things I disliked were Shinzon being an idiot and Data dying. Other than that, I enjoyed it.
 
Jack Bauer said:
USS Bones said:
I've never really thought about it. Does STXI give the date when Spock goes through the black hole? He looked an awful lot older than in Unification. I guess it depends a bit on how much time has passed between the two films.
Click to expand...

Spock goes through the hole in 2387. I think that's 6 years after Nemesis. I think Unification takes place in the late 2360's.
Click to expand...
Hence IT does change ANYTHING That could have been in the 24th Century...Who says that something else more poignant could have been set up for that?...Oh, I forget...Orci and Kutzman..and EVERYone ate it up...:rolleyes:
 
It makes Nemesis tragic since Nemesis has become the final look into the Prime Universe. Nobody is ever going to return to it thanks to the new movie.
 
I liked Nemesis.....a lot to be honest. It was a hell of a lot better than Insurrection.

The only parts I didn't care much for was the dune buggy hunting up B4s parts, picards clone not having hair (young picard was shown with hair in all the TNG flashbacks), and Data needlessly sacrificing himself (jump out of the ship instead of taking a shuttle? Killing yourself in an explosion instead of setting the timer on the phaser and either taking the shuttle you should have brought back, or hell just jump off the ship?)

Everything else was more or less A-OK.
 
KingDaniel said:
It's 8 years after Nemesis, which was set in 2379. "Unification" was set in 2368 - 19 years before Spock goes back in time.

(yay Star Trek timeline at the back of "Voyages of Imagination"!)
Click to expand...

which, by the way, is the same number of real-world years that passed between the airing of Unification and the release of Star Trek... but Spock shouldn't have visibly aged 19 human years.
 
zar said:
KingDaniel said:
It's 8 years after Nemesis, which was set in 2379. "Unification" was set in 2368 - 19 years before Spock goes back in time.

(yay Star Trek timeline at the back of "Voyages of Imagination"!)
Click to expand...

which, by the way, is the same number of real-world years that passed between the airing of Unification and the release of Star Trek... but Spock shouldn't have visibly aged 19 human years.
Click to expand...

Interesting, but there's nothing to say that Vulcan's don't rapidly increase aging near the end of their lives, or that Spock didn't go through some rough times on Romulus in those 19 years, or that he spent some unspecified amount of time in the black hole time vortex thingy.
 
JarodRussell said:
It makes Nemesis tragic since Nemesis has become the final look into the Prime Universe. Nobody is ever going to return to it thanks to the new movie.
Click to expand...

Well, technically, the final movie was the final look into the Prime universe.
 
Leathco said:
I liked Nemesis.....a lot to be honest. It was a hell of a lot better than Insurrection.

The only parts I didn't care much for was the dune buggy hunting up B4s parts, picards clone not having hair (young picard was shown with hair in all the TNG flashbacks), and Data needlessly sacrificing himself (jump out of the ship instead of taking a shuttle? Killing yourself in an explosion instead of setting the timer on the phaser and either taking the shuttle you should have brought back, or hell just jump off the ship?)

Everything else was more or less A-OK.
Click to expand...

The dune buggy part was really unnecessary... and just there to add some SFX...

But take a look at XI: It was a summation of unnecessary scenes, starting with Jimmy Kirk driving the car, to Jimmy Kirk driving the bike, to the jump scene on the drilling platform, to the sword fight on the platform etc.

Sometimes I wonder how they wrote that screenplay? Did they think of 'cool' sequences first, and then just linked them with a 'plot'? The more I watch this film, the more I get the feeling that it happened that way. Of course they would never admit it though...
 
^I doubt they'd be ashamed to admit it. If you read the Mike Piller's draft book, he ends it describing precisely the kind of writing that was used in ST11, you think up several memorable action set pieces, and string them together with a plot.

I don't think there's anything particularly wrong about writing something that way, so long as you put actual effort into the plot, and if a set-piece conflicts with the plot, you modify or eliminate it. Story must trump all, but it doesn't matter where you start writing it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top