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Does ST09 make 'Nemesis' less consequential, or more tragic?

Destructor

Destructor

Commodore
Commodore
I was watching Nemesis with my gf over the weekend (the sad end of a very long rewatching of all TNG), and the whole time I kept thinking: "Sure is sad that Romulus is going to blow up in a few years."

It tinged the whole thing with a sort of ironic tragedy, that all these Romulans/Remans/Clones were wrestling for the control of something that would be destroyed within their lifetimes.

But at the same time, if you take away the tragedy, it sort of undercuts the urgency of the film's driver- who cares about the coup? Shinzon was not really 'taking control' of anything, except in the immediate short term.
 
It's not so much Nemesis that's tragic, it's "Unification". Spock fails. They all die. On the other side of the black hole, all his people die. Double fail. No reunification anywhere, anywhen.
 
^Good point, KingDaniel. I never thought of it in those terms.

As far as Nemesis goes, my only thought was how much better ST09 was, and how this time I wouldn't feel compelled to put a paper bag over my head when I left the theater. :p
 
I don't think it's a guaranteed failure in broader senses of the word. The surviving Romulans in the Prime timeline (and indeed, with an empire that big, there would be billions) might finally put their fists in their mouths and come together more openly with the Federation and with the Vulcans. The good terms seen at the end of Nemesis between a Federation officer and a Romulan Senator would only boost that resolve, as well as the apparent loss of one Ambassador Spock in 2387 alongside the disaster that strikes Romulus. "A man who gave his everything for this," they might say.

But who knows. This whole shenanigan's about hope, though, isn't it? This whole Star Trek thing?
 
How many Romulan colony planets did we hear about? It may be that the vast majority resided on Romulus and the conquered planets had a garrison stationed there and not much else.

Also, who knows how many other planets with Romulan populations were wiped out by the super-nova.
 
cardinal biggles said:
^Good point, KingDaniel. I never thought of it in those terms.

As far as Nemesis goes, my only thought was how much better ST09 was, and how this time I wouldn't feel compelled to put a paper bag over my head when I left the theater. :p
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In which way was ST09 better than Nemesis?

As far as I see it, it was essentially the very same story (bald Romulan Empire guy and his super ships trying to wipe out Earth), just updated with a teen crew, shakey camera - minus some philosophical themes (average audience probably would think of as boring).

I don't want to start another discussion about ST09 here... and everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.
Mine is: ST09 was a copy and paste of Nemesis. In which everything was louder, shakier and equiped with more lense flares.
 
Well, Nemesis was about an old crew winding down and going their seperate ways, and about overcoming, or failing to overcome, one's limitations (Data and Picard always strive to better themselves, B-4 and Shinzon are content to continue their lives as they've lived them thus far - one vegitating and the other using more and more violence to achieve his goals). STXI was about a new crew on the rise, a conflicted guy finally coming to terms with who he is (Spock), about a loser realizing he can stop wasting his life and do better (Kirk) and an insane villain who wants to make the galaxy safe for his future-wife and child at any cost.

"Romulan-affiliated guy with awesome spaceship" is as far as the comparison goes.

(I'm one of the few who liked Nemesis, btw - but I liked STXI more)
 
I liked Nemesis as well. It's not great but it's not as bad as people say it is. However I love Star Trek 2009. It's praise is well deserved.
 
Re: Does ST09 make 'Nemesis' less consequential, or more tragic?

Well, it certainly makes it easy to believe that Nemesis never happened... :p
 
One of the things I actually liked about Nemesis was the possibility of opening the doors to fulfilling the "Unification" story line now that the Romulans showed to be a bit more open minded with their relationship with the Federation. If any new series was to continue after Nemesis, this would have presented a nice arc.

But instead, the Unification story was used only as a means to explain why Spock is where he is. And the story itself is further shafted quicker than an average flashback by having Romulus be destroyed just to give the bad guy a stupid motivation. Not since Alien3 have I ever seen such a bad lazy follow up to a great story line.
 
Spock's lack of reaction to the destruction of Romulus is also disappointing. Two planets he cared about were both totally destroyed and we didn't see his reaction to either of them.
 
kkozoriz1 said:
Spock's lack of reaction to the destruction of Romulus is also disappointing. Two planets he cared about were both totally destroyed and we didn't see his reaction to either of them.
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Well, he seemed to be quite happy at the end with him smiling and all! :techman:
 
KingDaniel said:
Err - Spock's "Forgive me, emotional transferrence is an effect of the mind meld" to a crying Kirk?
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Yeah, they really honed in on that one.

"So you do feel?"

Wouldn't that have been obvious considering how Kirk saw Spock clearly trying to grab someone that didn't get beamed up and stutter off the transporter pad when it was in vein?

And crying or not, Spock certainly recovered quickly after that catastrophe.
 
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